h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: A Very English Anarchist - A2677872
Author: Pinniped - U183682


This one was started at the time of the Cromwell Talking Point a couple of months ago, but was temporarily forgotten.

Tell me what you think. I know you will.

Pin

Yeah - I like that Pin, even if I wasn't thrown by your time displacement at the start.

I seem to recall a song by Billy Bragg about the diggers - though my memory is notoriously bad.

It could have been Leon Rosselson's song, written around 1975, which is at the "World Turned Upside Down" link.

The Diggers have been claimed as precursors by some diverse groups.
Winstanley had an incompatible set of values under the modern-terms we have come to accept. God-fearing communists are unusual.

Pin

One of the diverse groups claiming the Diggers as precursors flourished in the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco, 1966-68. If you want to include a passing reference, there's more information at http://www.diggers.org/. (The site includes a section on the English Diggers.)

Thanks Jim

That's a fascinating site

The Winstanley stuff itself is very good - I'd already considered linking to Hill's thoughtful Kingston lecture, and the Rexroth piece is full of additional material on the detailed chain of events. Where do you stop? I can never answer that one.

The SF group deserves a piece in its own right. You've given me an idea, another place to look where the missing heart of hootoo might be. California 65-69. There must have been some extraordinary Muses spawned in that time and place, surely.

Back with Gerrard, I'm hoping for critique, to get this right and hopefully-EG fit, but still different and provocative. As Mac-the-D hinted, the timeslip is a bit dodgy. The contrast (and the irony) between then and now in the same place needs to be preserved as a central theme, but the 'wrong war' thing is maybe just a feeble distraction.

It's also a hard story to be accurate about, because accounts conflict so much.

Thanks for your interest, anyway. Further comment (and crit) welcome!

Pin

I think you ought to mention Gerrard Winstanley in the title, Pin.

You've chosen a fascinating subject. At present, I notice you've linked to an entry which isn't in PR ( A2673443 )and doesn't appear near EG atandard yet. I'm not suggesting putting his dates in, although I was sore tempted - as it would spoil the suprise about the date in the text.

Not sure about the ending. Something like 'the legacy of the Diggers' would be appropriate - however, I'm not entirely sure what that would be. Im sure there is a legacy, though.

Hi ZSF
I think it should probably be called 'Gerrard Winstanley - a Very English Anarchist'. Yes?
You think the date-surprise works? I was expecting to lose that nearly as fast as the title.
Aren't you allowed to link to non-Edited Guide Entries? (Abiezer won't ever be EG-fit. The Diggers were prepared to meet the establishment half-way, but the Ranters never )
The legacy is difficult. Winstanley has some dodgy admirers. I think the Conscience of Suburbia Prick'd really is the most effective way to top and tail this piece, but I also think that the treatment needs to be understated.
Tell me more of your thoughts on these lines, please. As you probably realise, my interest lies in how it's told just as much as what it says.
Pin

Yes, I think the change of title might work, Pin.

No - you can't link to unedited entries - one of the rules from the Writing-Guidelines.

I have no trouble with the date surprise - others might, however I would argue that it works in the piece, so I'd leave it in and leave it up to the Editors.

I was familiar with the Billy Bragg song and if I remember rightly the Proclaimers did something about the Diggers too. It brought to mind a quote, which I thought was from about this time, however, having done some digging, it may have been earlier:

"During the Peasants Revolt in 1381 there was a slogan 'When Adam delved and Even span. Who was then the gentleman?'" From what I can see, it looks as though the originator was John Ball, d 1381 (executed).

Found a neat link to the Proclaimers:

http://www.proclaimers.co.uk/2003/the_music.html

I checked on Bragg's song and it is a cover of Rosselson's. Adrian Mitchell's in there somewhere too, I think. Couldn't find the Proclaimers on a quick Google, and wouldn't want to look much more closely

The "Adam delved" quote is indeed Ball at the time of the Peasants' Revolt. I don't remember that stuff too clearly. Wycliffe and the Blackfriars Trial? Apparently no EG Entry for all that either - there's another gap worth filling.

Presumably most of the links are NG, then?

Pin (off to read the Guidelines again, somewhat reluctantly)

The Proclaimers:

http://www.proclaimers.co.uk/2003/the_music.html

http://www.proclaimers.co.uk/2003/

Yes, there are still loads of gaps. I'm trying to find out about the original Proclaimers - not found anything yet. I know the band were named after a Digger-like lot.

Found this great link, though;

http://www.earlymodernweb.org.uk/film/winstan.htm

I'm just wondering if this is where the Proclaimers got their name from;

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/1820/appendix3.htm ?

Looks like this is another gap in the Guide:

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/1820/1820_rising.htm

Didn't the Proclaimers come out of The Quakers ?

You might get away with the war/date bit if you took out the wrong war bit ? Which is a bit smug ?? It says assume reasonable intelligence (though its presence has yet to be proved) So assuming they don't actually know Winstanley, they could be led gently back to right era ?

I assume we're trying to get this further than Carson ?

You mean Gunson.

On the contrary, I still want to see Gunson in the EG. This is nowhere near as good, but it's a bit more conventional, so I'm assuming you guys will be more sympathetic. It's up to you what goes in, though, not me.

I agree about "Wrong war" being smug. I'll do a bit of tidying soon.

Incidentally, I can't find anything in the Guidelines about ZSF's barring of non-Edited links

I was in favour of Gunson.... (and Carson)

I have nothing to do with anything - I'm not even a scout, I just hang around here 'cos its more interesting.

This probably isn't the place to admit it - but I've never read the guidelines.

You're right, Pin. It doesn't (and this comes as a suprise to me!).

I had to go to another linked site to find it in writing;

<./>SubEditors-GuideML</.>

viz: 'When linking from an entry you are approving to other h2g2 entries, there are a couple of points to bear in mind:

*

The entries linked to should also be in the Edited Guide.'
*

It would make sense for this to be in the Writing-Guidelines.

Hi Pin!

A really small thing, but why do you only call him by his full name at the end of the entry? I was wondering for a while if this person was real or fictitious!

I agree with ZSF that his name should appear in the title.

Otherwise, very good, very comprehensive stuff. Well done!

Woodpigeon

Hi Woodpigeon
He's real all right.
It would have been more conventional to reveal him at the beginning, sure. I had fun experimenting with telling the story this way, and I wanted to find out whether others might enjoy a little puzzling too.
If there's some Scout-consensus as to its merit, I'll change the piece to make it more EG-fit and encyclopaedia-useful.
Up to a point, anyway
Pin

I enjoyed this, but I thought it took a while to get to the point of it all. I'd suggest that you could probably get away with not changing the text but breaking up the intro with some meaningful headers to show where the story is taking us (rather like signposts I suppose).

The world could do with a few more people like Gerrard.