h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Quite

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Convincing enough for me anyway.

I'd be careful of using Wikipedia as a reliable source of information, ANY ONE can simply edit it.

SoRB, you seem to have a very closed mind on some subjects. I am prepared to listen and consider what other's belive but you seem to have your mind made up. Someone who had their mind made up has no place in a discussion forum. I suggest you go somewhere where you can be useful.
BTW do you celebrate Christmas? Do you work on Christmas Day or Boxing Day?
Don't try and slag Christians off. The resurection is the underlying basis of what we believe so you wont be able to disrupt the very foundation of what 1/3 of the world belives. Maybe you think that more people don't belive in Jesus than do but the people who don't belive in God is minority and four different religions all belived in Jesus and his miracles.

Sorb's a bit stubborn. But not that closed minded.

A bit dogmatic maybe.

Probably thinks the same about me.

Great. Finally someone who thinks on the same wavelength's as me. Good on ya'.

If Sorb were closed-minded he wouldn't have conceded that Jesus is a historical figure. The fact that, after looking into it, he changed his mind about that shows he is flexible and not closed-minded.

I agree with you there but if he want to discuss wheter Jesus rose from the dead or not, he need to be prepared to consider that it could or could not be true. He isn't prepared to consider that it could be true.
After all, the Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy itself says "In an infinite Universe, anything is possible".

Sorb did seem dogmatic in his belief in an atheistic universe, more so than religious people are in their belief in God. Why do I say more dogmatic? Because of the way he started ranting angrily that people who believe in God are stupid. Doing this makes his argument look weaker. I believe in a creator, but I wouldn't claim all atheists are stupid. I don't need to because I'm arguing from a position of strength.

Anyway, some atheists are stupid and some aren't, and the same goes for Christians. It makes me laugh how such people don't see how dogmatic and blinkered they are!

But to his credit, Sorbet conceded that abiogenesis is only a hypothesis (I say ONLY as opposed to a theory), and that Jesus is a historical figure.

The next stage is for Sorb to consider why of the twelve disciples ten went as far as being martyred for insisting that Jesus was alive. If he hadn't risen from the dead, if it was all a sham, wouldn't they have known?

And remember, Christianity spread like wildfire throughout the Roman empire in the first century.

Maybe the disiples knew it was a sham and just said all that to help spread the Chrisian faith. One of the best ways to get supporters is to preform a miracle after you die.

I thought Islam spread fast enough throughout Afica during its Golden Age (not as fast as Christianity though).

I'm not etirely (spelling?) sure of the deatils here but from what I can remember Saint Paul when around slagging of Christians before he changed his mind (maybe was filled by the Holy Spirit) and then became one of the most well known founders of Christianity. He is supposed to have played a major part in the publishing of the New Testament, he is mentioned in Mission Praise books that are used for Holy Communion services and Time Life produced a number of videos / DVDs from the Bible and included one about Saint Paul.
It's so refreshing for us to finally have a civilised discuession again.
I agree some atheisits are stupid but so are some Christians but this is true of all humans. I think the most stupid are those who say other's are but belive that they are not.

Islam did spread quickly, through armed conquest. Mohammed and his followers had armies. Christianity spread without the use of force, at least initially. Admittedly later some Christians went expressly against Jesus' many clear instructions against force/violence.

St. Paul was at first a vehement opponent of Christianity, arresting Christians and having them stoned to death.

Does toffee1888's comment that the disciples knew it was a sham stand up to examination? I don't think so. Remember, they died horrible painful deaths for their insistence on following Jesus.

To say they knew it was a sham is to say they were thinking: "We know this is a lie, but we are prepared to die for this lie that we've made up."

This talking point is called Are We Alone and I felt that way when SoRB was dominateing the discussion. Now if feel unalone. Intresting point we talking on since today is Pentecost which is the day the Holy Spirit arrived and therefore the birthday of the church.
The date of Pentecost however does date back to pre-Chirstianity since it was a special Jewish festival since. It was a week of weeks after Passover.
I don't think religion is a thing to discuss here though. I'd like to get back to discussing the possibility of ET life.
Has anyone seen impact where an asteroid broke in two and hit the Earth. Two more were coming so they sent fighter planes up and destroyed them. A scientist working with SETI said that they really were aliens disguided as asteroids and they would take us destroying them as an act of agression. This was proved with three more asteroid moving in. One on direct course for Washington, one on direct course for Moscow and one on direct course for Bejing (spelling?). These were destroyed by missiles and then the last scence showed about twenty all on course for the Earth. Since our biggest threat is asteroids I would have thought aliens would come up with a less threateing disguise if they wanted to make peaceful contact. Any views?

Can you make it clear that you're talking about a film? It's just, you segue so neatly from religion into Hollywood, that it's difficult to see where fantasy and fact diverge.

If in fact they do.

Well there are some that would do anything for who they are following, even if it means death.

That said, suffering horrible deaths must've meant they were uterly devoted to their cause, some died and yet the others carried on.

Found this info about the twelve disciples:

1.Simon Peter was crucified
2.James son of Zebedee, died by the sword
3.John son of Zebedee died of old age
4.Andrew - crucified
5.Philip - crucified
6.Bartholomew - crucified
7.Matthew died by the sword
8.Thomas - spear thrust
9.James, son of Alphaeus, was crucified
10.Thaddaeus (Judas, son of James) - killed by arrows
11.Simon the Zealot - crucified
12.Judas Iscariot hanged himself

Hmm, so only one of them lived till their natural death?

Yeah, I guess so. That's the tradition anyway. John, who's house you can visit in Ephesus near Izmir in Turkey, is the only one who died a natural death. There are quite a few books attributed to "John" in the new testament, namely John's gospel, the letters of John and the last book of the Bible, Revelation.

Apparently he was the disciple of whom Jesus said, "Mother, this is your som" when he was dying on the cross. I gather he took Jesus' mother under his wing and looked after her from then on.

Roman Catholics have a big thing in Izmir every 15th August, to do with the assumption of the virgin Mary. They reckon she didn't die but was taken straight to God. Are we getting into fairy tale territory here? I don't know. At least with Jesus' resurrection you have some explaining to do to account for events without accepting the truth of it. As for this Assumption idea, I don't know much about it.