h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"It's beginning to get to me,
That I know more of the stars and sea,
Than I do of what's in your head....." Snow patrol
There always appears to be more focus in schools these days on space exploration and finding out what's out there, rather than what's in there.
SETI are just looking the wrong way, there should be more emphasis in schools on subjects like philosophy and perhaps even theology (Religious Studies appear to have improved a lot since I was in school).
We all seem to want our kids to reach for the stars rather than looking closely at what's going down in the real world. This leaves the control of the real world down to people who couldn't give a damn about the future of this planet.
We need to sort out our own planet before we go trying to infect other planets.
Space exploration is good for expanding our knowledge and awareness, but doesn't a lot of the technology lend itself to military applications?
Our population needs to try to self regulate itself, and don't say we are already doing that, the planet is over populated by about a billion, so all these wars are just a kull, surely there is a better way.
Like education, teach all the starving populations about family planning as well as how to feed themselves. The Church's edict of "Go forth and multiply" needs to be told to do just that.
Keep the space exploration going, it's fun but cut other budgets like defence and things that the oil industry relies on to sell it's product like roads and cars.

In the mean time lets all get down to exploring the universe on our "door steps", the cyber one of which I am cruising the H2G2 quadrant at the moment.

You make several good points. Unfortunately here in Florida education gets the funding shaft. The lotto doesn't even help.
I live in St. Pete and they seem to every year close some schools then build some others. Not sure how that works.
We definitely need to keep our space program going as it's contributed to our understaning as well as products in use every day.

There is no much emphasis on the study of philosophy and theologhy in schools is because philosophy has little respect nowadays, despite its monstrous importance in life, and theology is mostly a branch of philosophy. I think most people just take things for granted too much

I think that the problems of the world's administration have nothing to see with good people wasting time looking to the stars, but rather in the crushing lack of a consensus of what to do with it and how to do it

I dont see what you mean with "infecting", planets dont have a life to be hurt then bipedal creatures do self-destructive things upon then and anyway exactly because we dont know how to handle a planet colonizing more will help: enough space for everone to do whatever they please.

Advancements in space technology benefit several fields at randow, we cant really tell until its done Also, since we gained the firepower to blow ourselves eight times any advancement on warfare is a good thing as it provides alternatives.

I agree that the world is overpopulated, but wars are both a solution and a consequence of overpopulation, so as long as the population is above the critical point somewhere war cant really be stopped.

Poor populations know its bad to have lots of children, they just keep having then because they dont have money for preservatives Really their problem is not that they dont know how to take care of thenselves, but that they dont have acess to the resources, either because they are lacking or are in the hands of someone else.

Defence budgets are a reflex of how treated people feel, people wont let it go down more than they think their safety costs, and will make it go down if they think they dont need that much safety, so not really a reason to worry on this, unless its your country

You dont have to worry about killing the oil industry either, oil is ending and they will have to abandon the ship or drown soon.

In days gone by the only way a culture could survive was by increasing it's population and its armies, hence it was ingrained into us that we must, "go forth and multiply" i.e. have kids, hence homosexuality was treated as a heinous crime. There are reasons that the poorer countries have more children that are simply no longer valid.
It would take us thousands of years to get to the nearest Goldilox planet, assuming that it has no life on it when we set out, may be a big assumption. So we are going to transport a bunch of humans (which humans discuss next) that breed like rabbits across a massive expanse of space and assuming they survive the trip and don't change too much in 1000 years, (have you seen WallE the movie?)Would we even recognise them when they got there? Also things being the way they are, we could send a ship out one day then 3 years later when they are just a fraction of the way, we send out a much faster ship that gets there and back in the time it takes the first ship to do part of the journey.
Who would we send? Would it be great scientists, or virile people that could build up a colony, or are we going to isolate the part of our genetic make up that gives us a sex drive, extract it from the crew, put it in a bottle and reinject it to whatever is left when they get there. Or are we simply going to weedle out a master race, chosen by scientists
I think we need to look at getting the balance right here on earth before we even think seriously about colonizing else where. Were it even possible or could it be possible. There are intelligences out there far in advance of our own, when we can demonstrate that we can all live together as one peaceful race then they might let us go further afield, if we want to, at the moment we don't even seem to appreciate and look after what we've got.

The reason is not because they think lots of children are a good idea, its really because they dont have money for preservatives and control thenselves enough to just not have sex. Instincts are strong, thats their whole point

Nowadays colonizing other planets is impossible but it will be someday, and in this someday we should start doing so as soon as possible.

What makes you think inteligences out there would have the same concepts of good and evil, right and wrong as we have? They could see human behavior and what we are doing on the planet as good things, even if we dont.

Humanity is not a single, hive mind like it would be ideal, but a serie of minds clashing against each other. Winhout a unified government we cant really blame ourselves for how the world is, we can blame ourselves for the lack of a unified goverment

The west has more than enough money and resources to educate people and issue birth control, condoms to anywhere in the world free of charge so why don't they?
They can't do it because not everyone believes it is right to use birth control, particularly the Catholic Church whose guidelines were set down to strengthen the Roman Army, also you have military leaders in some third world countries that just want young men to fight for them.

So that is a reason. The leaders of the countries are not effected by the primal desires that cause the population explosions. Many religious teachings lasted because the supported the then governments need to build bigger armies.

Some in the west would far rather export weapons and bombs to these poorer countries, then make their own country's contractors rich when they have to go in and rebuild.

What we are doing on this planet is good I didn't say it was bad, what we are doing is learning to live and most learning is good of course we do learn some bad things but on the whole it is good

But as is likely more advanced technologies exist in the universe and if we were such a brilliant example don't you think they'd help. Ah but then they'd probably have something like the prime directive. We're still learning stuff, all I'm saying that whilst we are gazing star wards, we should pay attention to where our feet are.

The West is not exactly the number one exporer of weapons to third world countries. But they are a major educator for other countries. Many from around the world come to the state to learn but few stick around. This is both bad and good as they could be used here but they are of good use elsewhere.
Hopefully someday we can reach the stars but I doubt I'll be around to see it. Growing up I always wanted to be an astronaut.

The West does not just refer to The States, the exact extents of what countries have adopted what is known today as western culture is un clear.
Why should we go into space to visit the stars when all we seem to do with the guiding lights that we have in this world, and have lived by for thousands of years, is push them aside or try to snuff them out.
"All Buddahs, Zen and Christian man all minions to Messiah Pepsi Can, This is my western promise," (Unltravox).

As far as I know goverments from the "west" dont help poor contries not because religion prevents, but because governments are elected to defend the interests of its country, not of others. Any goverment who focused more on helping others, even if the internal situation was good, would be took out quickly. There is some kind of taboo nowadays against governamentat charity. Well, governments wont do well at helping people if they are ellected minding the opposite

I actually dont think they would help. Why would then? And most intelligences out there are probally too diferent to even acknowledge us as intelligent beings

We should go to space to get ourselves some black matter. Dam thing is so hard to see we cant analyze it from here

Superior intelligences have already tried to help us on many occasions, their efforts have just found a hell of a lot of deaf ears.

So ignoring what has been said we gotta get us some dark matter

Later in the Snow Patrol song there is the line, "Are you beginning to get the point", evidently some are and some aren't, twas ever thus, suppose this place wouldn't be as much fun if it were any different

Well I havent seen any such attempts, and there is no guarantee that the same intelligences will be the next ones to show up. Unless I havent seen the guarantee either, on wich case you would be seeing a suspicious amount of things I am not

Hum, yeah, I think the thing we were discussing was originally reasons to not go to space rather than reasons to not colonize planets, and its important to keep focused on the objective Besides I dont think we will be agreeing about the second.

And dark matter is a cool thing we dont have here on earth, and since it is what keeps the galaxies in one piece, or so I heard, we should probally start studying it more soon And dark energy too, thought im almost sure thats everwhere.

We don't even know what to look for anymore, if we were looking for signs of superior intelligence, one name stands out to me Gandhi.....there are loads of others most less well known.

This thread started out expressing a fact that we seem to know more and teach more about outer space and the oceans than we do about the workings of our own heads or that of the guy sitting next to you.
A subject linked to the main guide entry but not identical to it.

I haven't said we shouldn't look into space just that we should readdress the balance between what's out there and what's inside all of us.

Dark matter might be pretty damned cool, like less than -273Kelvin it is also I understand very dense, that's how it holds galaxys together by gravitation, would you like us to get real close to a black hole so we can investigate one of them too? Yikes if you would. lol.

We shouldnt look for superior intelligences to follow, but rather follow our own beliefs.

I agree with that. People are afraid and reluctant to admit their true selves.

"Close" is a subjective concept, considering the size of the gravity field of a black hole, being close to could also be very "far"

I agree with the follow your own beliefs bit, but these are based on our own interpretation of our experiences and these invariably include experiences of varied intelligences, and often these experiences come from reading books talking to people and listening to what they have to say,watching TV the movies etc.
We have a whole universe of things to look at right here on this planet yet some think that all the experience about us isn't worth squat and the true answers we seek are only available off world. Well whatever keeps you happy but when we can't put food on the table cause we're paying tax through the nose it's a bit sore knowing that some of that tax is being spent paying people to Star Gaze. OK more is spent on deffence than star gazing but the governments neatly plug this issue in favour of star gazers.

That is true. I think people are so amazed by space because its not only filled with unknow stuff, but also easier to study than many things on earth:
*Examining the inside of the earth is hard cause we cant get in there.
*examining the oceans is hard because they are too big for something that you can hardly see beyond a few meters into.
*examining ourselfes is hard cause we are afraid of that.
*examining economics is hard cause it outgrew our dexterity.
*We already know religion since we invented it, but we are afraid of finding out why.
*examining the social problems of the world is hard because we are part of the problem.
*Examining life is hard because it doesnt stops moving, and it isnt the same thing if it does.

Space is a lot easier to undertand than earth or human society

Good answer, but it's weird that we reward people so much for taking the easy way out, is it not also the case that space offers us a reflection of ourselves.
E.g. Dark matter holds galaxies together much the same as fear holds communities together. Film and TV stars radiate energy by way of ideas (thoughts being energy). People that are different are considered as alien etc.
People do study oceanography. Introduced in Geography
People do study the earths geology.
People do study economics, Big bucks but more in banking
People do study Religion in theology, but the masses that go to church only listen to what the vicars are allowed to say.
People do study ourselves, our bodies - doctors,
our minds - psychiatrist, psychologists
Trouble is these are separate areas of study and highly specialized, with the right person doing it theology might help out the psychiatrist and vice versa, but that's probably asking for too much joined up thinking, as you say bit scary.

To articulate a plan, its necessary that at least one mind knows everthing that is possible to do that will be involved in the plan, even if not knowing exactly how do to it. So to join up areas we would, for example, need someone to know at least a lot of both psychiatry and theology, and a lot of any other areas involved, and thats utopic

Well Robert Owen had one a Utopia that is and at one time in the UK the Spiritual leaders used to carry out surgery successfully, it's only after the Christian Church got involved in medicine that things started to get Barbaric.
Most theology isn't relevant to psychiatry as I'm sure most psychiatry isn't relevant to theology all you'd need is someone who knew the relevant bits of each, all I know is that the Bible is about following your heart and if you don't do that you are likely to wind up ill depending upon your will, Carl Jung touched on it, he did a lot of work with Alchemy too.

Anyway back to Space, do you think there are any Utopian civilizations out there?

Probally yes.