A Conversation for Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 41

benjaminpmoore

I also concur, although I have ointment for it.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 42

Opticalillusion- media mynx life would be boring without hiccups

what do you mean by ointment?


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 43

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

.Why suggest including [about polydactyly] this when it isn't true? Read the backlog, specifically my post #24:
>> "And when in doubt about urban myths, viral emails and "friend of a friend" stories, always check Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmtoes.htm "

I'd ignore this completely in a factual entry. If you include it, even as a myth, then it's going to show up when someone uses a search engine, thus perpetuating the fib!.


Well, in that case that is a VERY good case FOR mentioning it, and taking the opportunity to point out that it is a complete fabrication thus NOT perpetuating the myth. (To say it's an 'urban myth' is giving it too much rspectability because IMO urban myths are things that one should normally be incredulous about.But polydactyly is reasonably common and there is not any reason to disbelieve that MM had this. Certainly it is a 'fact' that I have known for years and had no reason to disbelieve. condition.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 44

coelacanth

You say there's not any reason to disbelieve that MM was polydactyl. Have you checked out the Snopes link? The only "evidence" was someone trying to sell a book! It's not a "fact" and never was, even if you do claim to have known it.

So perhaps include it as a footnote if the intention is to debunk the myth. But your original suggestion was to include it as a fact. Which it isn't.

Personally I would ignore it altogether, unless some other untruths about MM were going to be included and then debunked too. Why give a special mention to this particular myth, when there are so many? eg, she wasn't the model for Tinkerbell in Peter Pan, she didn't have any secret children etc etc.

What do others think?
smiley - bluefish


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 45

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

'she wasn't the model for Tinkerbell in Peter Pan, she didn't have any secret children etc etc.'

But I'd never heard of either of these - which means that they're not commonly-perpetuated myth.
And also, the latter is something which would be reported along the lines of, 'some people say thay...' whereas the polydactyly issue is reported as being fact.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 46

coelacanth

>>smiley - space "...whereas the polydactyly issue is reported as being fact."

Where?
smiley - bluefish


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 47

benjaminpmoore

'what do you mean by ointment?'

Sorry Opti, it was a joke. Well, I thought it was anyway.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 48

Gnomon - time to move on

There's good stuff in this Entry, Opti, but it doesn't sparkle. It'll take a fair bit of work to get it into shape.

Let's start with the second paragraph, the one that starts with "Norma Jeane Mortenson". It's a real nightmare. Firstly, why does Monroe have two different surnames, Baker and Mortenson? What was on her birth cert? When you say she was christened Baker, do you mean that name was given to her in a Christian babtism ceremony, or do you mean something else? Why do you mention that her mother was a negative cutter, but only tell us her name later on? The whole paragraph could do with being rewritten in a more explanatory style.

OK, on to the next paragraph:

"Monroe was left with two choices either get married or return to living in an orphanage" - who presented her with these choices? As an actress she was able to earn money so why did she have to get married?

Section Ideal Woman talks about her figure and her sex appeal, but wouldn't it be better if you talked about her getting into the movie business first, and then later discuss these aspects of her personality.

I could comment on the rest, but I'd like to see the start sorted out first.

smiley - smiley G


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 49

Opticalillusion- media mynx life would be boring without hiccups

I'm back equipped with sunburnt shoulder and the only thing that makes any sense right now is G's posting smiley - sorry

much confused opti smiley - erm


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 50

Gnomon - time to move on

Take it easy and sort out your shoulder, then your head, then the Marilyn entry.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 51

Opticalillusion- media mynx life would be boring without hiccups

I've addressed the core of the second paragraph and the choices she had to make. Does it matter what type of baptism she undertook? and she wasn't working as an actress at that point smiley - erm As for the ideal women bits I feel that these were the key ingredients to making it into her career so should go first. smiley - erm


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 52

Gnomon - time to move on

>>Does it matter what type of baptism she undertook? and she wasn't working as an actress at that point

It's not important what religion she was baptised into. I was asking those questions to try and understand why she had two different surnames, Mortenson and Baker. It still throws no light on why the grandmother gave her the surname Baker.

Why do you say "biological father"? Why not just "father"? It also seems odd to say that we don't know who her father was, but one possibility is the man her mother was married to. Isn't this the normal assumption? Wouldn't it be better to say "although Monroe's mother was married to Whatsisname Mortenson when Marilyn was conceived, it is not definite that he was the father; another likely candidate is TheOtherGuy, who she was working with at the time."

She was adopted by Grace McKee and her husband Doc Goddard. Then Goddard's husband had to move. WHo's Goddard's husband?

I'm unsure of the dates of all this. Marilyn was seven when her mother was hospitalised. SHe moved into an orphanage. THen she was adopted and five years later was given the choice of getting married or going back into the orphanage. She seems to have been only 16 at the time. Is this correct? Could you say when she was adopted, or what age she was? It would make it a bit clearer.

Grace McKee left Monroe with two choices either get married -->
Grace McKee left Monroe with two choices: either get married

The couple were happily married for two years, when Dougherty -->
The couple were happily married for two years, until Dougherty

>>As for the ideal women bits I feel that these were the key ingredients to making it into her career so should go first.

OK, if you're going to put it first, you'll have to introduce it differently. You can't go straight from talking about an 18 year old who has never done anything to saying how Monroe would be considered too fat these days. You have to describe her, saying how she appeared at the time.

Later on you can add that she was more curvaceous than the modern "stick-insect" figure detested by men and promoted by fashion magazines.smiley - smiley


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 53

Opticalillusion- media mynx life would be boring without hiccups

i hope its better now i've addressed thee probs


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 54

Leo


Anyone have anything else to say about this?


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 55

Gnomon - time to move on

I'll try and have another read through of this today.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 56

Opticalillusion- media mynx life would be boring without hiccups

bring it on smiley - tongueout


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 57

Gnomon - time to move on

who she was working with at the time. She was later baptized -- change the first she to Gladys and the second one to Marilyn to avoid confusion.

had a choice to make be with her husband or have a career -->
had a choice to make: to be with her husband or to have a career

but today (2007) the ideal body image has changed and Monroe who once was thought of as epitomising beauty, today appears to be hefty -- you've two "todays" there.

her 'body mass index (body fat) was 20% -- BMI is not the same as percentage body fat. Find a different way of saying this.

I thought the average woman was 26% fat and if she got much below that she would start to get health problems.

Heading: Voyeurs Gaze --> Voyeurs' Gaze

Who is "Mr Vowles"? It is not normal to refer to people as "Mr" in journalistic English.

and the voyeurs gaze --> and the voyeurs' gaze

I'm not sure that voyeur is the right word here. Look it up.

Underneath, this façade '[Monroe] seemed very shy -- instead of putting Monroe inside the quote and then having to put brackets around it to show it wasn't there, just move it outside the quote. And fix the punctuation:

Underneath this façade, Monroe 'seemed very shy

That same year Ben Lyon a talent scout for Twentieth Century Fox approached her -- add three commas:
That same year, Ben Lyon, a talent scout for Twentieth Century Fox, approached her

Monroe was her grandmother's last name -- you've already given the grandmother's name as Della Monroe Grainger so it wasn't her last name. Was it her maiden name?

well sought after piece of memorabilia --> much sought after piece of memorabilia

This also meant she remained an actress -- why did not denying the calendar make her remain an actress?

she was encouraged to take up roles in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and How to Marry a Millionaire.
-- can you say something about these? Were they considered successes?

co-star Billy Wilder -- are you sure that Wilder acted in Some Like It Hot as well as directing it?

appointments--sometimes --> appointments - sometimes

This time though she was --> This time though, she was

to be having affairs with these men, prompted -- remove the comma

nobody knows, she had alluded -- capital N on nobody, please, and change the comma to a full stop.

put in appearances in What a Way to Go!, Kiss Me, Stupid, and A Tree Grows In Brooklyn -- these should be italics

all this was taken away. But despite all this, on the 5 August, 1962, 36-year-old Marilyn was found dead in bed -- this sounds as if despite all this being taken away, she was found dead. Get rid of "all this was taken away" and leave it to "Despite allthis" to make the contrast.

on the 5 August, 1962 --> on 5 August, 1962

after years of examination -- I doubt that the examination lasted years. It would be better to say "after years of speculation"

Mr Engelberg -- does he have a first name?

The Kennedy Brother's --> the Kennedy brothers

the Kennedy brothers relationship --> the Kennedy brothers' relationship

the mafia --> the Mafia

reflects that in the weeks leading up to her death -- this clause is unfinished. It reflects that what?

"Monroe is seen as a sex symbol". This section, being the conclusion, needs a header.

an old friend of hers Robert Slatzer who brought -->
an old friend of hers, Robert Slatzer, who brought

Goodbye Norma Jean Though I never knew you at all You had the grace to hold yourself While those around you crawled.
-- could you put tags into that to split it into four lines, please?

The words you've given aren't Elton John's, they're Bernie Taupin's.

to suffer from psychological problems both her mother's parents -- split this into the two sentences that it actually is.

smiley - smiley


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 58

Opticalillusion- media mynx life would be boring without hiccups

smiley - ok sorted everything out except for the following for now:

>>Monroe was her grandmother's last name -- you've already given the grandmother's name as Della Monroe Grainger so it wasn't her last name. Was it her maiden name?

>>This also meant she remained an actress -- why did not denying the calendar make her remain an actress?

>>she was encouraged to take up roles in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and How to Marry a Millionaire.
-- can you say something about these? Were they considered successes?

>>her 'body mass index (body fat) was 20% -- BMI is not the same as percentage body fat. Find a different way of saying this.

>>I thought the average woman was 26% fat and if she got much below that she would start to get health problems.


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 59

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

There seems to be confusion over whether you mean BMI or Body Fat.

Here is what I say in my 'Obesity' Entry at A13785014:

'In normal women and normal men, 25% and 15% of body mass, respectively, is stored as fat....'

AND...



The World Health Organisation recommends using a formula that takes into account a person's height and weight. The 'Body Mass Index' (BMI) is calculated by dividing the person's weight in kilograms by the square of their height in metres, and is thus given in units of kg/m2. A BMI of 18.5-24.9 is considered to be the healthiest. A BMI of between 25 and 29.9 is considered to be overweight, while a BMI of over 30 is considered to be obese.

The figure you quote (was it 20%?) is close enough to mean either Body Fat in % or BMI in kg.m2

If you meant Body Fat, then this would appear to be low as 25% is considered to be normal for women.

If you meant BMI, then 20 kg/m2 is within the 'healthiest' range. (So I don't think you can say that she would be considered to be overweight by smiley - doctors. Mind you, the fashion/glamour industry is another kettle of smiley - bluefish!)


A2145241 - Marilyn Monroe - Actress/Singer

Post 60

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

Ha! Here are MMs Vital Statistics, which they'vew used to calculate a BMI of 19.6

http://www.calorie-count.com/forums/post/20726.html

smiley - smiley


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