h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

True. I think I'm getting a bit confused thinking about it.

Don't think it helps that we have groups like JWs and Mormons who claim to be Christian, yet hold some radically differing beliefs to other Christian groups.

You're definately right that if there was just one unified group of Christians who all believed the same thing, the world would be so much different. And I hope it would be a far better world too.

I also don't think it helps to have high profile people like George W Bush proclaiming to be Christian and receiving personal messages from God to bomb Arabs . . .

Most Christians I personally know are very lovely and caring people who use their religion (church groups, etc) to help others and really do some good within their societies. And on a personal level they tend to abide by the Golden Rule.

Which makes me not able to understand at all these extreme Christian factions that don't seem to be following Christ in the slightest. Including GWB and his particular Christian power-mongering weirdness.

To me it is very sad - and also very scary - when people take a particular religious doctrine and start twisting it to support their own warped and selfish desires. And, unfortunately, this has happened a lot with Christianity throughout history. As has also happened with Muslim and Jewish religions. Religion becomes a politial tool . . .


az

oops, 'political tool'

az

I know what you mean. I've heard lots of people here giving off stick about GWB and how he said God told him to do what he did. I don't want to start doubting him. He could truly beileve that God told him to do these things. We have no idea what's *really* going through his head.

But it definatey doesn't do anyone any favours if yiu're just using God as an excuse, as someone to take the blame for your actions, in the hope it'll be better recieved or whatever.

One thing I would say, is please don't base your entire view of Christians or Christianity on GWB. You said you know lots of Christians who are good people, so consider them. They are the real people who you know personally. With people like George, we're only told what they want us to hear.

<>

Well, actually we do, as they keep saying it in the press. For everyone to read.

Which is, they are total maniacs who are using religion to justify whatever new evil they come up with.

Basically, it's religious fanatics who tend to give religion a bad name.

They blow up people or repress societies 'in the name of God'.

<>

Well, of course I don't do this, which I think was clear in my last posting. Meanwhile you cannot deny that religion is being used as a political tool, and weirdly, even more and more recently.

I say 'weirdly' because I think most people, especially those living in western cultures, do not place religion as their main personal motivating factor in the way they live their lives. Yet most still abide by the Golden Rule - because it makes sense!


az

<>

Is what we read in the press *actually* what's happened or is it propoganda? I'm not saying that you're gulliabe or that nothing in the press is to be believe. What I'm saying is that can it all be taked to be the truth all the time? Surely someone as powerful as GWB can and *does* have people censoring the press.

Kind of in a hurry here, so it won't be as worked out as I'd like....

~*~But so is thew fact that Christ is God, and that we are his subjects. For JWs, Christ is below God, and for Mormons, a select few become gods but only find out who when they die.~*~

That's not right. For Mormons there is only one God. Jesus Christ was the Son of God, not God himself. And if you mean who I think you mean, those few you're referring to didn't "become" Gods. They were "Translated", which means they went straight to Heaven without dying first. Although I don't know the details and so I can't tell you why.


~*~Don't think it helps that we have groups like JWs and Mormons who claim to be Christian, yet hold some radically differing beliefs to other Christian groups.~*~

Not to aggrivate, but since you obviously don't really /know/ Mormon doctrine, you probably shouldn't be trying to represent it.


~*~Is what we read in the press *actually* what's happened or is it propoganda? I'm not saying that you're gulliabe or that nothing in the press is to be believe. What I'm saying is that can it all be taked to be the truth all the time? Surely someone as powerful as GWB can and *does* have people censoring the press.~*~

Only in classified military matters. I don't know much about the press system, but all newspapers and newsgroups or whatever are part of business corporations, and the President has no control over those.

GWB has no control over what goes out about him in the media? I know he's not the maffia, but surely he does have press advisors etc?

And ok, so I don't know everything about Mormonism, it also appears that neither do you. I'm sure you know things that I don't and I'm happy to learn if you're happy to inform.

~*~GWB has no control over what goes out about him in the media? I know he's not the maffia, but surely he does have press advisors etc?~*~

Yes of course he has advisors. They tell him not to get drunk and streak a Football Game.

The point is that the U.S. has a Freedom of the Press system. Anything the news corporations /want/ to put in it, can be put in it; unless it's from the Military. The Military, like any other business, has the right to personal censorship so that the plans to invade some enemy country aren't given away to the bad guys by means of the media.

Now having said that, you might suggest that the President, being perhaps the most powerful man alive, could blackmail or threaten or pervert (or whatever) the Press. To that I say simply this. There are THOUSANDS of ways for /anything/ to get out. Ultimately it will, even if only in the Tabloids. And the President is under closer scrutiny /constantly/ by /everyone/ until the end of his term. To try to break the law in any way (and even he's bound to it, whether you believe me or not) would be political suicide.


~*~And ok, so I don't know everything about Mormonism, it also appears that neither do you.~*~

Never said I did. It's because I don't know the first thing about Judaism that I didn't even consider arguing with you about that.

~*~I'm sure you know things that I don't and I'm happy to learn if you're happy to inform.~*~

That's what I'm doin'.

The president has more influence over the media than you think. There is a small but loud conglomerate of media interests in the US which gets its marching orders directly from Washington. After they parrot the same phrases long enough, they start seeping into the mainstream, because they become so ubiquitous nobody remembers where they came from.

In the 1890's media mogul William Randolf Hearst singlehandedly triggered a war with Spain. History has repeated itself.

That doesn't mean he could round up 6 million Jews and incinerate them without the public knowing though, is all I'm sayin'.

Yeah, it's not as if he could spy secretly and illegally on his own citizens, or lock people up without trial, or torture people, or invade countries for no reason...

I admit you have a point there.

Have to say, if I'm reading Blatherskite right, he may be right. take that GWB waged war on Iraq despite many Americans and other countries being opposed to it, and yet he got voted in for a second term. The American public must have sen some good coming through the media (from GWB himself?) to encourage them to vote him back in.

The influence of the media is everywhere and it can be diffcult to see.

"The American public must have sen some good coming through the media..."

...Or was convinced of the bad in the Democrats, as was the case - Swift Boat Veterans for Truth anyone?

Ste

And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, every right-wing pundit was repeating the words "flip-flop" in every other sentence. It's amazing how all these people from all these different organizations picked up the same phrase on the same day, eh?

The Republicans are absolutely brilliant with the synchronisation of their messages. Their dealings with the media is a sight to behold. Karl Rove is a genius at what he does.

~*~Have to say, if I'm reading Blatherskite right, he may be right. take that GWB waged war on Iraq despite many Americans and other countries being opposed to it, and yet he got voted in for a second term. The American public must have seen some good coming through the media (from GWB himself?) to encourage them to vote him back in.~*~

To be honest, I think it's just that nobody liked Kerry. I didn't like Bush at the time either, but I thought he'd be a better choice than Kerry.

*Exactly*

You think that because he was portrayed as a dour, jabbering, indecisive bore by the Republicans. Again and again they repeated the same message. It was relentless. The media took this image with glee and ran with it. The question is "why?"

Ste

"US politics 'obsessed' with ads"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5291298.stm

The media rules! Or does it?

az