h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: The Role of Environmental Damage in the Fall of Rome - A1981578
Author: Master of the Dojo of Coolness (MotDoc) - U208372

A pretty good summary of the fall I think, from a perspective not usually heard.

Caution - compass points entry not a particularly good link. It is short, but doesn't make good sense - I don't think it would pass through PR unscathed if it was submitted today (there are several older entires this would apply to). It isn't consistent about the names of places eg furthest point north, and talks about the most northerly point being further east, as if that were relevant.

I'll comment on the actual entry later when I've had a chance to read it carefully.

Pimmsaloonie

Yes another good entry

One aspect that I found a little confusing was the variety of inconsistent comparisons of the amount of wood needed for various activities (eg one cord per cubic foot of clay, 16,000 pounds per day for a kiln, 10,000 tons of wood per ton of silver, 114 tons of wood per year for even a 'small' bath - that last one is a surprisingly accurate amount for an unspecified size of bath )

Footnote defining Gaul as France would make more sense on the first reference to Gaul - BTW there should be a recommended entry on Great Britain shortly to link to (though it isn't about Roman Britain).

Oh and one tpyo: peninsula not penninsula

Pimmsaloonie

Danke schoen Pimms. I myself was a bit troubled about the inconsistent estimates and simply haven't gotten around to standardizing. Do you think it would be better with metric estimates as well? The reason for the specific estimate on the baths is that it comes from a study done of one particular small-sized bath north of Rome.

Bitte schoen MotDoC. Re small bath, if further details of the small bath aren't being given I'd round the figure to 'over 100 tons of wood per year' which is sufficiently accurate.

For visualization of the scope of wood needed it might be best to convert all comparisons to tons and also (if you can discover this) what a ton of wood roughly equates to in terms of trees (eg one ton of firewood can be garnered from two 40 foot roman pines, or one hectare of clear felling of mature forest would probably yield 600 tons of firewood - note: I made both these comparisons up )

Pimms
(ignorant of what a cord is)

Hi,

Good topic for an entry.

I'd heard or read some of this before.

Some of the stats. are, I think, still a bit too fine for what is really just supposition. (228,000 pounds of wood...)

Also, the density of wood varies so much, from maple, iron wood and oak down to pine, white cedar, etc.

Awu.
P.S. A (bush) cord 8' * 4' * 4' of wood. A hearth or face cord is 8' * 4' * whatever fits in your stove (about 12-14") I think.

Good entry

Great entry MOTDOC!

Extremely interesting and well researched.

Some really small points on style - you mention "At this point you might think "What's the big deal if the forests get torn down?"-that is if you still remember what this entry is about. " - I think it might be a bit superflous myself, as I immediately realised what you were leading up to. I have a question though. Something similar happened during the rule of the British Empire from the 17th to 19th centuries - why didn't Britain suffer a similar fate?

Also, it might be too simplistic to say that it was simply lack of wood on its own that contributed to the downfall of Rome. Were there other lesser factors that would not have helped the circumstances, and might also be worth mentioning?

I would not put Cicero's translation at the end of the entry into a footnote. It should be in the main text, I think.

Superb stuff

Woodpigeon

It would be nice if you put all the weights and temperatures into metric, as people like me would be able to understand them better then. I think the usual style is to put the imperial version after the metric in brackets, such as "1kg (2.2046lbs)".

You can find an easy convertor here: http://www.initium.demon.co.uk/converts/metimp.htm

Good entry, nonetheless!

An excellent entry, well done.

Fascinating entry. It shows the devastating impact of not managing the environment in a sustainable way, and its long-reaching effects on human populations across millenia. I think I'm correct in saying that many different cultures have disappeared due to environmental factors, many of which were self-inflicted, as in the case of the Romans.

I enjoyed this very much...

Prideth

Very enjoyable and highly readable. It was like watching Horizon on BBC2

If only I got the BBC2...
BBC is my source for world news when I can get it, along with NPR (of course). Anyway, I want to say that the works referenced at the end of the entry (as with all my entries) are highly recommended for further reading, especially in this case Pan's Travail.
-MotDoc

Very interesting entry and relevant today. Seems like humanity still hasn't learned from past mistakes in regards to overuse of resources. I enjoyed it much.

On a similar vein, I believe it was de-forestatation that brought about the end of civilasation on Easter Island.

Oh, two new things I have learned today, then! Interesting entry!

Indeed third man, you are quite right about Easter Island. I will probably put up a full entry on that subject sometime in the future.
-MotDoc (still searching)

Is this done yet?

Yes its done...what else did you think it needed?
-MotDoc +

Hello,

Firstly this is a very well written entry on a interesting take on the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.

I shuold say that I'm not an expert at all on this topic, however my flatmate is a final year Classics student (that's Greek and Roman literature and language I think you call it anything else in the US).

He hadn't heard of this theory at all, I wonder if their are any references you could list in a biliography? (though I usually link to sources within the entry it's self, rather than placeing them as a list on the end).

Whilst this is an interesting theory and a I'm sure it played a factor - most scolars, well most of the ones that are teaching my flatmate anyway, do seem to think that it was due to other reasons.

I was wondering if you could just perhaps put another paragraph in acknowledging that their this isn't widely considered to be the reason for the downfall of the roman empire.

I'm sorry to post something other than congratulations - this is a very well written entry! and will make an excellent contribution to the edited guide.