A Conversation for Musical Instruments - Peer Review Version
Peer Review: A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Started conversation May 11, 2007
Entry: Musical Instruments - A13872008
Author: Gnomon - [ 3 stars - back to work ] - U151503
A short entry on methods of classifying musical instruments.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
the_jon_m - bluesman of the parish Posted May 11, 2007
why don't Mouth Organs count as Woodwind, they are reed instruments?
Is it because they have seperate reeds for each note?
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Icy North Posted May 11, 2007
Looks good to me
I can't believe this wasn't already in the Guide!
Nitpicks:
I think you may need to be consistent. The first two are passive, and the third is active.
I think this should be written alpenhorn
I'm no expert, but I think I can tell a cornet from a sousaphone.
Well, maybe not every rock band. Don't some use drum machines/synths?
Icy
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
the_jon_m - bluesman of the parish Posted May 11, 2007
>> I'm no expert, but I think I can tell a cornet from a sousaphone.
Doesn't one have ice cream on the top ?
>>Well, maybe not every rock band. Don't some use drum machines/synths?
my new band aren't having drums. Mainly cause it means we can avoid paying for a rehersal room
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Posted May 11, 2007
Are they still rock bands if they haven't got drums?
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Posted May 11, 2007
Mouth organs aren't proper wind instruments by the traditional definition because they don't have a vibrating column of air. The reed vibrates, but the pitch is entirely dependent on the size, shape and weight of the reed itself. In normal reed woodwind instruments, the reed only acts as a "noise maker" and the actual sound is produced by the air in the intstrument resonating at a pitch determined by the length of the pipe and the position of finger holes. So the two operate on completely different principles and shouldn't really be lumped together.
Is this worth explaining in the Entry?
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Posted May 11, 2007
I think I've dealt with Icy's points.
I've added lots of links to different musical instruments.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Vip Posted May 12, 2007
The mouth organ topic could possibly merit a (short) entry in its own right- it's a topic that would detract from this one, I think.
I know there's already one on the harmonica (A301113), but it's an early entry and not greatly detailed. The How To Play Harmonica (A996951) is very good, but doesn't cover the aspect we're talking about.
Hmm. Maybe just a long footnote?
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Vip Posted May 12, 2007
Sorry- by detract I mean get in the way of the flow and pace of the article. It's not like the topic is unrelated.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Recumbentman Posted May 15, 2007
Nice article. If you really want to make it longer, you could digress on the extraordinary minefield that musical instrument names become. There is no end of false etymology (tambour/tambura/etc for instance means a drum in some places and a string instrument in others; and just where does "banjo" come from? Can it have anything to do with "bandora"?)
Grove heads its entry Alphorn with [Alpenhorn] in square brackets.
I have no trouble classing a mouth organ as a wind (free reed) instrument. (Column of air? Who needs one?)
Funny to call an accordion (also free reed) a wind instrument though. And a button accordion is hardly a keyboard instrument -- or is it?
And the musical (bowed) saw: string? No, ideophone I suppose. The African thumb piano (free reeds, twanged) is an ideophone too probably, and likewise the glass harmonium.
It all depends on what the classifier wans to classify and for what reason. You're into more philosophy if you're not careful.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Posted May 15, 2007
The trouble with classing a harmonica as wind is that it behaves differently to wind instruments such as the trumpet and the flute. So you'll have to have sub-categories: wind instruments with a column of air and wind instruments without a column of air. And then the ocarina doesn't have a column but a chamber of air, so it's like but unlike a recorder (no overblowing possible and some other differences). It all gets very complicated.
I don't particularly want to make this any longer. It's a useful top level entry with links to lots of different instruments.
I'm glad you've had a look at it, R. Is there anything that desperately needs changing.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Recumbentman Posted May 15, 2007
No, though I would change alpenhorn to alphorn. I see you are stuck with "column of air" from your first definition. More oddities come to mind such as the Aeolian harp (strings set in motion by air) -- but if you want to keep it short, this is fine.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Recumbentman Posted May 15, 2007
In English the flugelhorn simply discards the umlaut, and doesn't replace it with an e.
There is a slight discomfort in your list of brass band instruments; to a purist the brass band is based on saxhorns (cornets, flugelhorn, trombones, tenor, baritone and bass saxhorns) and while the euphonium is barely different from the tenor/baritone saxhorn (which has a wider bore) the sousaphone is a different kettle of fish.
Curious thing, the purist's brass band: no percussion. If you add trumpets, sousaphones, percussion or other things, you have a Military Band.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Skankyrich [?] Posted May 15, 2007
'Hundreds of years ago, the viol or viola da gamba...' - could you briefly mention what a viol is?
'Orchestras also often feature the cor anglais' - cor anglais should be in italics.
'the Australian Aboriginal bull-roarer' - I think it's 'bullroarer', but I'm not sure. Tiny point, anyway
The Hornbostel-Sachs System section - why was it devised, and who uses it? I don't think you should add any great detail; I just think it would be helpful to have an idea why it would be used.
Apart from that, this is great
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Recumbentman Posted May 15, 2007
Viols are used for Renaissance and Baroque music; they aren't appropriate for medieval music, only emerging in Spain around the 1470s (i.e. well into the renaissance). Medieval bowed instruments include viele, rebec, and crwth.
Viele -> vihuela da arco -> viola da gamba.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Wilma Neanderthal Posted May 15, 2007
To add to the 'various regions' aspect, you could mention the 'oud - a string instrument - and the derbakke (or tabla) - percussion. Both are Arabic musical instruments.
W
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Posted May 15, 2007
Thanks, folks. There's some useful stuff there which I will incorporate.
I don't actually know much about brass instruments. But I'm surprised that you would include trombone in with saxhorns. Surely the trombone is a cylindrical bore instrument?
I don't think there is any need for italics on cor anglais as that is the normal name in English for the instrument, just as viola, which is an Italian word, is the normal name in English for the stringed instrument.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Recumbentman Posted May 16, 2007
The cornet and trombone are not saxhorns; the modern flugelhorn was invented by Sax but is not necessarily a saxhorn (its name at least was aready current, with a different shaped instrument). Same is true of the cornet.
The trombone is the odd one out all right; it is technically a bass trumpet.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
Gnomon - time to move on Posted May 16, 2007
I think I've addressed all the points, but I'm not sure about "Brass Instruments", and I've added a brief description of viols which I'd like the viol player to check.
A13872008 - Musical Instruments
pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) Posted May 17, 2007
Gnomon, I'm glad to see that you've got your second wind
'Jews Harp' is the more common name for that instrument, in my experience, and is in no way derogatory. But, perhaps 'Jaw Harp' is the more politically correct after all.
Regarding 'Are they still rock bands if they haven't got drums?'
I think you're on solid ground there - without actual drums they are one taco short of a combination plate.
>>The viol family is similar to the violin family, but has six or seven gut strings, frets on the fingerboard, and a slightly different shape, giving them a different tone to the violin family and a greater ability for playing chords, but without the extreme dexterity possible on violins and the like.<<
This is rather a long sentence and even has two 'but's in it. I'm okay up to '...for playing chords' and you could even put a period there. The last bit is the puzzling part for me as I can't tell which of the differing features would hamper one's dexterity.
Excellent - per usual
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Peer Review: A13872008 - Musical Instruments
- 1: Gnomon - time to move on (May 11, 2007)
- 2: the_jon_m - bluesman of the parish (May 11, 2007)
- 3: Icy North (May 11, 2007)
- 4: the_jon_m - bluesman of the parish (May 11, 2007)
- 5: Gnomon - time to move on (May 11, 2007)
- 6: Gnomon - time to move on (May 11, 2007)
- 7: Gnomon - time to move on (May 11, 2007)
- 8: Vip (May 12, 2007)
- 9: Vip (May 12, 2007)
- 10: Recumbentman (May 15, 2007)
- 11: Gnomon - time to move on (May 15, 2007)
- 12: Recumbentman (May 15, 2007)
- 13: Recumbentman (May 15, 2007)
- 14: Skankyrich [?] (May 15, 2007)
- 15: Recumbentman (May 15, 2007)
- 16: Wilma Neanderthal (May 15, 2007)
- 17: Gnomon - time to move on (May 15, 2007)
- 18: Recumbentman (May 16, 2007)
- 19: Gnomon - time to move on (May 16, 2007)
- 20: pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) (May 17, 2007)
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