h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

...that you are (or were, or whatever) protesting the idea of some "elite" people knowing these "secrets", and your protest is to create a different group of elite people who are part of a clique that shuns these others? Funny that. I thought the idea was to be against elite groups. Whatever.

I suppose you'll protest every new feature that comes to h2g2 when it first starts testing only in certain places, with the idea that some conspiracy is keeping secrets from you.

(Oh, and if you're wondering, I just put the references on my page tonight. I didn't know how to do it before.)

Hi CrazyOne! Before I get into GIRR, let me just mention that I stopped by your page and read your article on guns and schools. I've been living in Texas for about a year, and it scares me how I am an outsider because I don't own a gun. I've been thinking of moving for England. I moved to Texas from Colorado, and I used to live in Littleton, about 10 minutes from the high school where the shootings took place a little while back. It's a sad world.

Now, to business! (Ford and Zaphod clink glasses. "To business!")

I was waiting for someone to point out this inconsistency. You make some valid points regarding GIRR, but I will try to explain my position. GIRR was meant as a double protest:

First, a protest against HTML secrets in general. This was not meant to include those who work at TDV - it's their site, they can do as they like, and hopefully they have our best interests in mind. But I felt that us common researchers should be on even ground when we are designing our pages - that it was wrong, or at least unfriendly, for some to not share their programming wisdom with others.

Second, a protest against a specific secret - putting references in the margins. I decided, along with a few others, that if the "elite" researchers wouldn't share, then we wouldn't keep trying to find out. In additon, we weren't sure it was worth the bother anyway. I prefer the non-margin look, but at any rate.....

Thus, a protest. Although it wasn't technically a *protest*. We didn't go and bother TDV members about it or anything. The main thing was to sign up folks who agreed with me - if you haven't noticed, I like to sign people up to stuff (protests, softball teams, etc.). On a side note, Jim Lynn (a TDV head honcho) sort of agreed with us in a few forum posts, noting that he wasn't supporting researchers who were keeping secrets.

Now, as far as GIRR being elite, I suppose you have a point. You can't join if you use your margins. If for no other reason, GIRR stands for Gonna IGNORE Referenced Researchers (I wanted a catchy acronym, obviously), and you can't really ignore when your are using the references. When the margin secret became widely available, I asked GIRR members if I should end the protest. They suggested I keep it going for people who don't use the margins. However, I don't want to be elite or exclude people, and that's why I started WASGIRRWOJ. It's for anyone who agrees with the first part of the GIRR protest but wants to use their margins.

Really, the only people I'm excluding are those who were keeping the secret. And I've made peace with some of them - RSBohn even joined my softball team! Just about everyone has the choice to join either GIRR or WASGIRRWOJ. And it's all for fun anyway....

Lastly, I don't plan on protesting everything new that isn't available right away, as long as it comes from TDV. The researcher/editor issue is a perfect example - I asked a few questions but otherwise stayed out of that one.

Sorry this is so long! I just wanted to better explain my position - hope it helped! Of course, you are welcome to join WASGIRRWOJ, but if not, no hard feelings. Someone named Bruce did something very funny - he put a reference to GIRR in his margin! That's the type of good-natured rivalry I like to see....

I don't even know. Guess maybe I have gotten that cynical about how immature people are, and I guess I was even looking forward to some flame responses. (It's fun to stir up a bit of controversy now and then. )

Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful response. I still don't really agree, but that's cool, we can not agree.

Instead I'll comment about your guns & schools comment, although there's little more to say. It's a sad time that we have to see these sorts of things happen. And now you've become the second person to tell me how close they are or were to the school and area in Colorado. I just feel like an outsider based on what happens in this country a lot, all over.

'Course, I've been an outsider in much smaller ways all my life. It's nothing new.

Sorry I couldn't flame you. I saw your point all the way. I certainly don't mind if we agree to disagree.

Did you meet someone else on H2G2 who lived near/in Littleton? Who was it? I'd like to say hi.

Guns scare me. Guns make me upset. Guns make me want to go and shoot everyone who.....wait, scratch that last one. I think there are a lot of gun owners at my office - I hear a lot of discussion ("my gun" this and "my rifle" that). I just keep my mouth shut, so as not to stir up trouble. We'd probably end up on the national news....

Did you ask them? I mean I was asked by two people and I told them, Beeline and Dancing Tree, so it seems a bit weird to ignore EVERYONE who has these references?

I didn't know people were keeping it a secret—you must have been asking the wrong people, because the ones I asked told me how to do it without so much as a "Why do you want to know?"

If you'd asked me, I'd have told you...

Course, no one ever asks me. And even when they do, they don't listen—no one EVER listens.

Good point Ant! I shall not ignore you. You could certainly join WASGIRRWOJ, although there are no hard feelings if you don't.

Actually, I only asked MadMunk, and as I found out later, he had a good reason for not telling. But I read some forum postings and there seemed to be a lot of hiding going on. The people who joined up seemed to agree.

Hell, I'll let ANYONE into WASGIRRWOJ if they want. I'm not trying to make people angry....

No hard feelings then, but you've started this club and it might grow so perhaps you should put some referenced users in yourself, well it's an idea Sorry, but I love everyone.

Ant - Hehe. I think the other GIRR members would kill me if I started using margin references.

Kristina Marie - I'll listen! I guess we all asked the wrong people. Oh well, it's all done now. And it's kept me busy.....

Nothing wrong with a good protest now and then. There are certain vegetables I've been meaning to get up a petition about. Anyway, I wish people would listen to me more. I know things, I really do. Not all that many but enough to be of some use to somebody, I'm sure of it.

It's just as well though because whenever anybody does ask me a question they're always sorry they did it.

You had better talk to Vegiman before you start that protest!

By the way, this somehow is listed as one of the 5 busiest forums on the front page. Doesn't seem that busy.....maybe my really long post did it.

Probably because of how many posts in short amount of time.

KM, you've been on here all this time? And I've been here, by myself, trying to type up my homepage stuff. Snif. And I was just going on about how I had these friends.... Turn on the IM, you.

Wanders around aimlessly having been expelled from GIRR. Been invited to join a new protest with such an interesting name I can't remember it. What is to become of me?

But now you are a front-page celebrity, PP&L!

Thank-you Tv's Frink - bribery and corruption once again triumphs over goodness and righteousness

Oh dear. Well it's been seventeen hours but maybe you're still on, eh. I'll have a look.

Kristina Maria I'm listening, truly

I suspect that's a good large chunk of the problem. Everybody's listening at all the wrong times. I think I should take up experimental space travel. Or get myself a nice cave with air conditioning and utilities included. Then when I want someone to listen, I can talk to a rock. Rocks always listen, except when they're asleep.

Sorry. I'm rabbitting on about nothing. No, really, it's absolutely nothing, I think. If it's not, I don't know what it is, so I like to think it's... nothing... right, I'm going now.

I don't know much about the rabbits. I do have a pet rat called Zyrokill. His painting has been likened to Picasso's blue period