h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Reefgirl,
Though I'm not a huge football fan, I do think you're right. Possibly in rugby there's more of an element of age (and associated bulk) resulting in more elite players being a little more mature than footballing teen-stars might be when they start their real best years, but if there *was* proper rule enforcement in football maybe it would help the immature teenagers grow up more quickly.

If someone 18 years old sees someone in their club 10 years their senior get away with lying and cheating, there really isn't much incentive for them to behave like a sportsman rather than a spoilt teenager.

I don't see that there is any problem to get worked up over here.

The object of a football match is to win. And to do that, a player should do what ever it takes within the rules to achieve that aim.

As the rules currently exist, life favours the attacking player. In a marginal contact with a defender, they stand a reasonable chance of gaining a competitive advantage of a free kick or the like if they decide to then fall over as a result of this 'marginal' contact.

Or would you prefer to go back to the days of Ron 'Chopper' Harris. He too played up to the margins of the rules of his day, and when he made contact with a player, they went over for real.

In Rugby the referee is respected he is called sir by the players, even the women, oh yes there are female refs, one reffed a game my ex hubby played, I've never seen 30 blokes head for the showers so quickly

Potholer,

The problem or the ethos begins at an early age. Go and stand on the touchline when youngsters are playing football and rugby and watch how the relevant parents act. Any dissent shown towards the Ref in rugby probably results in a parental clip around the ear for the miscreant. In football the Ref is more likely to have his lights punched out by some goonlike parent.

That's true

There's this saying "Rugby is a game for gentleman played by hooligans"

Am I right in thinking there has never been crowd trouble at a Rugby international

I'm not sure if there's been trouble at any Rugby games. There's been lots of anti-social behaviour due to the partaking of massive ammounts of , various stunts with condoms and raucous reditions of Eskimo Nell -When a man grows old, and his balls go cold, and SHUT UP, but I've never seen any bother.

Morning all

Been reading the 'posts' with interest.
Som points emerge clearly.

1 Blues Sharks,s justifiable opinion on 'diving'
2 The tendancy for groups of players to surround and bully refs who have awarded a free kick.
3 The fact that the media are responsible ( allegedly) for the behaviour of players eg Rooney.
4 The financial ivestment in winning - in my view nothing to do with soccer!
5 Kids in a park will play footie with two coats as a goal. Shouldn't the FA or FIFA look at this inherent need to play THE GAME?
6 The huge difference between the 2 rugby codes and their RESPECT for the refs decisions.

To my mind the whole problem stems from turning a sport into tribal warfare in the chase for money ( both clubs and players), and thus to justify what I think Grey Desk said about it being about winning any way you can without breaking the rules. Tell that to Gary Linaker!

The best thing that could happen is to use modern technology, as i rugby, to give the refs a 'mike' so we can hear what they say and what is said to them, and also the video referee who can view a disputed incident, like the M U goalie recently scooping a ball out of the net, seen by millions on TV as a clear goal, but not awarded - and worse- not admitted by the goalie. Why worse, because that would have earned him the wrath of God from Club Manager and Team , because position in the league is more important than the game.

Thats the problem --- money rules, the game doesn't, and that's what leads on to all the media hype etc etc.

Novo

yes but they will need to change the name because ,its called the champions league ,well how many runner ups are in it . its not called the runner up cup is it .

Look back at teams you don't see anymore ,that cant get in for the greedy clubs getting there own way ,eg 20 years ago teams like real madrid ,ac milian could draw each other in the early rounds ,how did you think how teams like aston villa ,notts forrest got to finals or good runs , because there was no seeding in them days ,

All there focus on are teams like milan, barca ,madrid etc , now they wont be happy that the spannish giants went out early this years ,its a wonder they have not been ringing out the hankie at uffa to change the rules again .

eg look at that flare that hit the keeper on the head at the milan game if that was a lesser team they would have been booted out .

Hmm it is difficult for the FA, and FIFA one one very *big* reason.

The Football watching Public.

1) World cup final, 119mins extra Time, England 1 Germany 1. The last minute Wayne Rooney gohsts past two players, into the box.

A German player catches his leg, not hard but there is contact (probably not enough to make him go down, but only he will evenr know that) England win a penalty and the world cup.

How many England fans are oging to be hacked off? Even the ones who don't like diving will justify it to themselves if there was some contact. Footy fans can be blind. I know that what I slaughtered him for in the Arsenal match, if he did it for England and won the world cup I would not care.

2) Wayne Rooney scores 39 goals next season, really coming of age. He is being acknowledged across the globe as the worlds *finest* footballer. In the Champions league final which Man U win (Rooney hat-trick) he swears at the ref and is booked for his trouble.

The FA seeking to crack down on anti social behavior tell him that because of his attitude he is not going to the world cup. England crash out in the first round.

Football fan's reaction? Applaud the "right" decision?
Get real they (and me) would be baying for the FAs blood. What can they do?

Morning FB

I am surprised at you!

I had you down for one who played by the rules in life. But not apparently in football? It isn't me who needs to 'get real' , get real about the circumstances surrounding the current game - I am , and tht's the problem isn't it?
It IS about tribal warfare and not much to do with footie in the park. I suggested using technology to expose the worst excesses and the treatment suffered by refs. it would have two benefits.

1 Poor refs would be exposed, and good ones have their borderline decisions ensured as correct.

2 The possibility of TV review of incidents or tackles just might prsuade players to play 'fair' and not win at any cost, by whatever means thay can illegitemately use, but get away with.

Novo

Novo I am not necessarily saying that the scenarios I laid out represent a "good" thing, merely that they reflect the actual situation. The FA is in a prediclement over this.

And you are right, generally I am an intelligent and level headed individual. However when England/Argyle are playing I seem to de-evolve to something barely out of the trees. I am not *ever* violent. Holliganism is not my bag. But I get caught up in the tribal elelment. I shout and scream and sing.

And you know what? I love it. Once a week or so I get all my aggression out in the form of horrible songs about Exeter/The Oppositions fat keeper/ The Referee.... ect ect and feel nice and contented afterwards. I think you are right about the tribal thing, something happens to people at football.

Now if you really want to know my I reckon that is why foortball is *soooooooo* much more popular around the globe than other sports. It taps into something.

I understand FB

I know so many get so much out of supporting their team, ( and venting a week's frutrations too ). I have no problem with that. I just wish that it could stay at that point, without the hysteria and hype we have been talking about - and it's results!

BTW could you still enjoy it if the tech' was available to help?

BTWA Read your reasons ref Uni - Good for you. Always obey your gut instinct!

Respects

Novo

I totally agree, Manchester United is just a brand name, its not really about the football anymore. I still love roy keane though!

Hmmmm "Tech" eh? I have to say I am not sure.

I think there is a case for "ball over the line" situations, but anything else IMHO would detract from the game. I also worry about at what level would it be instigated? Premier, Championship, Conference????
I worry that it might create two tier football with effectivly two sets of rules.

BTW.... I am sure I have made the right decision.

Evil Evon - Being a Portsmouth fan I had to giggle at Roy Keane's 'gestures' at St. Mary's on sunday

That is what you call divine retribution

Hi FB

Techno' I think that it has enhanced the sports in which it has been used, in spite of the reservations that folk like you had initially.

I know I am R U man at heart but I think that the game has benefitted enormously from ref's Mikes for example - there is no doubt that the ref controls the game and that swearing or dissent is punished at once.

Equally we can hear the ref telling players to behave, "if you do that again.....etc" and the knowledge that this is audible has IMHO helped the game flow. It's rather the same with cricket I think, where an umpire can call for an evaluation of an incident.

I appreciate that indisriminate use initially slows down the game, but players get used to the possible scrutiny and hopefully play by the rules.

Sermon over

Novo

<I totally agree, Manchester United is just a brand name, its not really about the football anymore. I still love roy keane though! .

not about football anymore ,its not been for the past 20 year.

I just love him (Roy Keane) for standing up to Mick Mc Carthy and the FAI (Football Association of Ireland) all the flack he got, when he was so right about the training conditions and the FAI's attitude to the world cup. He got a terrible time from the Irish media and public.

football supposed to be fun, family game, I emphsise game because thats what its supposed to be about not this:
- football jerseys and brand names that are so overpriced that most schoolkids dream about getting but few can afford
- inter club rivallaries and hooliganism, is it safe to bring kids to a football game?
- the invasion of player lives to the point that we know every last detail about Coleen Mc laughlin - I mean really do we care!

I find it hard to enjoy a sport that is dominated by brands and gossip columns, I was a Manchester United fan years ago, but no more I tell thee!!!!

<1) World cup final, 119mins extra Time, England 1 Germany 1. The last minute Wayne Rooney gohsts past two players, into the box.

you can dream mate . lol when has germany last been good enough to get to a final ,if they were not the host nation they probley would not have made it .