h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Morning W A

My sentiments exactly - hence the starter post!

regards
Novo

Sorry about that,

Right this has nicely moved onto the "Footballers Role models" argument.

So my . Firstly I think it is a myth that all proffesional footballers are bad role models. There are a good 500-700 proffesional footballers in the Premier league alone, some 2500 in england ect...

Occasionally when one of them does misbehave it becomes headline news because of the high profile of them, however "Model pro loves his family, doesn't drink and strives to improve himself. Staying after training for 2 hours a day signing autographs." Does not a headline make. I think people would find that the majority of footballers fall more into this category than the "prositutes,swearing, drugs ect...."

Secondly is it all that surprising that some football transpire to be bad role models? Lets face it most footballers are young men from disadvantaged backgrounds, working class lads. Because they have an aptitude for playing football they are given lots of money and free time. Franklu I would be more astonished if none of them went of the rails.

Go down your town centre on a Saturday or Friday night. You will see literally hundreds of kids like Jermaine Pennant or Wayne Rooney drinking, smoking, fighting, doing drugs. Because that is what a lot of young men do, have done since the dawn of time and will do until the government starts mind control. Anyone who thinks this is not the case is seriously kidding themselves.

Also why do we expect footballers to be role models? Sure what they do makes them popular and rich, but it is just there job. I am sure the cast majority of pro footballers would still do it even if the money was 25,000 a year instead of a week. Simply because *we* choose to watch and adore football means we expect them to be something for our kids to aspire to? Lets get real here.

No other professional sport that I am aware of tolerates the sort of cr*p that goes on during a so called 'professional' football match these days.

The diving is ridiculous, and try going onto a rugby/hockey/cricket pitch and start shouting and swearing at the ref the way the average premiership footballer does. Early baths all round.

And the FA could sort it, almost overnight. Mandatory yellow cards for diving, and for the first sign of dissent with a ref would clear up these incidents instantly, but they are too afraid to take on the money men who now run the sport.

Hi FB,

I think it's because footie has become the opiate of the masses and that footballers are held in high esteem by youngsters that another responsibility or price to pay for the adoration is to modify their behaviour to be good role models.

The forces of commercialism and advertising are strong spirits in this information age. Every pub you go into nowadays has a mega sized TV on the wall seemingly constantly tuned into Sky Sports. The Big Brother media message surrounds us and kids are more vulnerable to it than a cynical old fart like me.

Contrast the sacking of the Rugby League coach last week because the club would not tolerate his behaviour in front of a crowd composed mainly of families.

I would argue very stongly that the FA should do no such thing. Insofar as English football is part of world football doing anything like that unilaterally would damage the game here.

FIFA could do something about it, diving is my personal bugbear, but I dont want the FA doing anything if the rest of the worlds footballers are not subject to it.

Also I am sure football is not alone in its atheletes behaving badly. I mean athletics is riddled with cheats. Dick Pound says that his organisation on scratches the surface of the drugs cheats in athletics.

But WA do you see my point about who these people are? I am willing to bet that most of these footballers come from a background where what all their mates do is go out drinking, swearing, fighting and drugtaking. I know I have the damned t-shirt.

All their peers will be involved in this kind of behavior (it doesn't make it right, but it is the way it is), now where are these lads supposed to get an extra 5-10 years of maturity to deal with these issues? It took me about 5 years to realise that getting pissed up and doing E and Coke every week was wrecking my life, I think I am a pretty level heading intelligent chap as well. Some of these lads simply wont know how to deal with these issues.

It is not fair to expect them to act in a way lots of us wouldn't have been able to do aged 17-18 just because they happen to be good at kicking a football.

Cheating and being an arse are different issues in this case. Every professional sport is riddled with drug abuse. Ask the US, where they are having VERY high profile Senate hearings on steroid abuse in Gruidiron and Baseball.

But fine. One of the reasons I watch MUCH less football than I used to when I was a kid was I got tired of watching prima ballerinas rolling on the floor having been brushed by an opposition player and then gobbing off at the ref when he told them to get up. Or worse yet, watching the ref get surrounded by shouting, bullying idiots when he dares to give a free kick.

As one of the commentators remarked on the Man U/West Brom remarked (only semi-)humourously 'Nobody gets two penalties at Old Trafford.'

And you are right of course Blues, I find that the whole diving thing is a cancer on the sport.

My personal solution is that games are reffed the same way but that all pro matches are reviewed by a panel after the game. Anyone found guilty of cheating by diving is given a 5 match ban. If it is in the world cup then the player is sent home. My reasoning being that the cost/benefit analysis that players do is massivly weighted in favour diving. Worst case scenario (and unlikely at that) get a yellow card. On the plus side you might win the game for your team.

This would only work if applied everywhere though. Not fair if we just do it and never win an international match again.

Yes FB I understand where you're coming from but the guys playing Rugby League are from a similar background but the ethos of the sport is different. Something changed in football at some point and I don't know enough about the sport to pin it down but I bet it is associated with money. From what I remember the Liverpool and Manchester players from the 60s, 70s and 80s were tough cookies from various backgrounds but I don't recall as much dissent or shear anti social behaviour. Maybe it was there but the tabloids weren't so intrusive. What I do know is the present overall image isn't good.

From a lot of what I have read about football in the 60s and 70s (and therfore this cannot be taken as anything approaching gospel) they were just as much big drinking swearing scallys as they are now.

Read pretty much any "footballer who was a character tm" from the 60s and 70s autobiographys and they are all talking about going on the piss, big fights they had in the tunnels ect... By all accounts the press wasn't so interested in it as they are now. Also I think people have a natural tendancy toward rose tinted spectacles, they remember the good not the bad. And thus "old football" seems from a halcyon age, when in truth there was no doubt lots of bad stuff going on as well.

I agree with FB that we can't expect perfect role-model behaviour from young men who are suddenly thrust into that role because they can kick a bit of leather and earn more in a week than a lot of us do in a year.

However, that's where the "club as surrogate" family should come in. In all other jobs there are a mix of older and younger people. The younger ones may have more talent etc etc,but the older ones are there to show them the ropes. (my office would be a good example: we have a few young pups with MBAs who think they know everything, well they might be good on "supply chain management" but ask them to answer the phone properly and take a message and you might as well train a chimp to do it)

Behaviour and manners have to be learned, and these guys have to learn (as do the ones drinking, swearing, grabbing my boobs as I walk to the taxi rank and throwing up in the gutter). It's not just up to parents, but to all of us.

But that's going right off topic.

I often watch rugby and when the ref (who we can hear clearly, and I think footie could learn from that) is speaking to these massive guys who are all pumped up in a way footie players never seem to get, it reminds me of those Little Angels programmes. You know the one, the parent is stamping down on the urge to slap the legs, and instead you can hear the psychologist saying "yes, that's good, make him sit on the naughty step"

It's not a question of giving referees more authority, it's about enforcing and reinforcing the authority and tools they already have.

As for ManU being Glazered - I'm still and

Teams moving isn't restricted to football. London Wasps rugby club currently play on Wycombe Wanderers' ground in the heart of Buckinghamshire.

But diving . Treat it as you would a deliberate foul of the nature being implied by the dive.

Thanks W A

Made my point for me again! I was reading the preceding posts and intendd to mention both rugby codes ,where the disgraceful spitting , dissent , swearing at the referee, and blatant taunting of 'opposing' spectator , plus the "diving" are simly not tolerated.

I watch both rugby codes , one ord of dissent after a penalty =10 yards further back, and again if necessary. So why not in football, is it really because the young players are semi louts who can kick a ball ith accuracy?

I raised the thread largely becaus I see the behaviour of M U and its support of players 'in the wrong',plus it's tendancy to try to dictate the shape and future of a once beautiful game as having reduced it.

Novo

I can understand the logic. I can also appreciate what you are saying about the percentage game, but the number of times I've seen goal opportunities go begging because someone chose to take a dive (and Ronahldo at Man U is a classic example) is absolutely staggering.

Mornin Novo,

It's a politcially fashionable word at the moment but the key to the difference in how Rugby and Football are refereed is respect. It isn't unusual to hear a Rugby ref being addressed as Sir. It's down to the clubs to of both Rugby and Football to build a culture of respect for the Ref.

What they need to remember is that without the Ref there is no game. Without the game no TV audience and no big fat wage packets. This might be a simplistic analysis but eventually if Football continues on it's current course the watching experience will errode to that of all start wrestling and that doesn't have a big following.

One thing I wonder is if either of the rugby codes had anything like the media attention that football has would more off field misdemeanors come to light?

I mean there is an industry in this country about finding out what bad stuff footballers do, simply because it is so lucrative. Even a reserve at a top club makes the news if caught gambling or covorting with prostitues ect... There simply isn't the same level of interest comparativly in other sports. This probably helps keep some of the more unsavoury elements out of the news.

Well, that'd be fine if we hadn't restricted all our points to on field behaviour...

I was thinking out loud. In no way do I dispute that the on field behavior of pro footballers compared to rugby footballers is atrocious.

Ok I was pointed this way after posting a point about Wayne Rooney and David Beckham being bad role models and I stick by it and I believe the media has a lot to do with it, if punching someone in a nightclub, throwing up in the gutter, screwing the local bike behind the girlfriends back gets you on the front pages for a few days, your profile goes up, your prestige goes down but hey who care's if the wife/girlfriend can manover(sp) to her advantage all the better.

I've said this before and I'll say it again Football should borrow Rugby's rules I'm not too sure how it stands now but when my ex husband played if you verbally abused a referee the maximum punishment was a season's ban from any RFU affiliated club, for physically abusing a ref it was a lifetimes ban. I remember an instance where one of his team mates was sent off (Then it was an automatic 30 day ban) and argued the case at the RFU at Twickenham, the tribunal upped it to 60 days for having the cheek to argue the case so they learned to put up and shut up. The RFU also deals with the top flight players if they bring the game into disrepute, Will Carling anyone, now THAT was a dramatic downfall, from England Captain to has been in 18 months all for ditching his girlfriend days before the wedding. If only the FA would take a leaf out of the RFU's books we'd have Englands footballers on the sports pages instead of the front pages

THE cancer of football is the amount of overseas players in our game here ,our own young players are not getting a chance , plus look at the prem i mean how many english managers alone are there .