h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm really surprised I'm not a theatre go-er and I live in Birmingham (the show only played in London) but I was aware of it, it was reviewed in pretty much every paper, even the free one that they give you on buses.

That's a fair point David. Most of the christians I have met have been reasonable people. Just those who make the news seem to represent the lunatic fringe - as with other movements perhaps.

And it is too easy and tempting for a militiant atheist like myself to allow the extremists to define christianity, when I oppose the 'christian' line on censorship or homosexuality or whatever.

So what is an appropriate designation for them and for you?

I think you're in a nasty position. Voices of reason and moderation are drowned out as debates become polarised, as the religion debate has lately. With the expansion of religious schooling, US funded evangelism, creationism, and performances like that of mediawatch over Jerry Springer: The Opera, we feel that a pro-Dark Ages movement is dangerously powerful, that science, tolerance and democracy are under threat. And the fundis feel under threat because they like it and because the evidence is against them.

But I don't see how the debate can be depolarised.

Debating this one with mum (Christian URC) this morning - she was actually quite accepting of the whole thing, copious swearing and all but sympathised with the protest against supposed diatribe against Christianity, Instead she saw it as part of litany of complaints against the Beeb for a supposed anti-christian bias. (she listens to the radio a lot - I can only presume they've been discussing God etc., on there.)

The play for her was not the point, it was it's transferrence to the tv screen. She argued that the difference between the play and the tv show was this: that you actively choose to attend a play at a theatre, you do not excercise the same freedom of choice over what is broadcast on tv and into your home whether you like it or not.

I objected that I did not see the distinction, since the option to change channel or switch off is always there. Nevertheless she maitained that when viewed in light of the BBC as a public service broadcaster drawing support from the licence fee it was ...let us just say 'improper' of them to broadcast this material to which anyone can have access even if they find it offensive.

I objected again for all the reasons we gone through already in this forum that the BBC is not in the business of catering for minorty objections, despite their remit and charter obligation nor that censuring such broadcasts is acceptable either.

She hit back saying that it is entirely the disparate treatment of christianity as something to be mocked at every turn, that was at the heart of this debate. She felt that had the play been about any other religion or depicted, say the prophet mohammed in a derogitory light, there would be outrage, condemnations and the beeb with withdraw it. She sees thier refusal to cow to the christian protests as further evidence of their dogged insistence on persecutuing them.


I can see now why the musical has been such a success (if anyone who wants to organise a hootoo forum outing to the west end - I'll go! ) and thought it made quite excellent television. I do not share my mum's assessment of the distinction between stage and screen not the implications that brings to this debate. In particular I think the focus on the BBC's "responsibilties" as a broadcaster is a particularly malicious subterfuge since as is the substence of this debate now - they did not protest the play when it was on stage. It smacks of opportunism, both moral and political. If they persue the blasphemy thing I hope it will fail and be the last damp hurrah of the unedifying spectacle of a moral rectitudinous minority.
.

I've still got my copy of the show if anyone wants it.

And as a special bonus the tape comes with a rather fine documentary all about Eric Morecambe


Form an orderly queue, people

See now what we really need is something that'll upset every religious fringe at once, so they can't trot out this "if it was Mohammed," "Christians wouldn't stand for it," rubbish or dodgy Holocaust comparisons.

In fact, I suggest the BBC shows programs designed to offend anyone at all without the sense of humour to take a good long laugh at themselves.

I tried my best to watch some of it, but I just found it tedious to be honest. I'm just amused that once again the extremists volunteer as the PR Department for something they are so vehemently against.

I'm particularly intrigued with the ridiculous 'licence fee' argument, for two main reasons:

* Should I tear up mine because I disagree with my money being spent on utter tripe such as 'reality' TV shows, endless DIY and garden makeovers and the like? No, because they do also broadcast quality news, dramas and comedy (I love Little Britain, for instance) which is what I imagine my fee is going towards.

*Also, the show was on at the National Theatre for quite some time. I believe the NT is quite heavily subsidised from both tax money and the lottery. What's the difference between public money spent on a theatre or on television?

With regard to the question of extremism and so on, I think that if I (and hopefully the rest of the world) can recognise that not all followers of the Islamic faith are terrorists (in fact, suicide bombing goes against the teachings of the Quran as far as I can tell), then hopefully people can realise that not all Christians are TV-license-burning loonies with nothing better to do than moan!

David

Of course, I've just realised that I'm moaning about the moaners, so does that make me as bad as them?

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Well she certainly did not listen to the Today programme a year or so ago when secular people tried to get a non-religious speaker on 'Thought For the Day'. I took ages just to allow them to have Richard Dawkins do one single broadcast. *I* have to grit my teeth every morning while some self-appointed religious commentator brings God into every thing that has happened recently and say that only God can fix it. Not exactly anti-christian bias. And I sugget she wtch the Heaven and Earth Show when they gang up on a secular person on the show and subtly ridicule them for not believing God.

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In the same vein *I* choose not to attend church services but *I* have to suffer Song of Praise from some Church or other every week. Yes, I can turn it off but following your mothers argument this is not good enough. Hence, ask her whether Church services should be not be shown anymore. They are after all peddling out-of-date superstitions and views.

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How can you mock Mohammed - He existed. The fact that he said he was a prophet chosen by God is of course rubbish. Buddha existed. Jesus Christ? ut on Earth via a Virgin Birth? fed the 5,000 with a few fish and loaves of bread? Walked on water? Raised the dead? Got nailed to a tree and died for our sins THEN came back to life 3 days later i.e. HE DID NOT DIE!!!!? A work of fiction that less and less people are believing in but they still have a big voice in politics esp in America who are trying to force their neo-conservative views on the rest of the world - banning certain cloning techniques etc. Of course, it should be questioned otherwise we are still not going to get rid of the whole thing and concentrate on worldly problems and how to sort things out. For me mocking Jesus is on the same level as sticking Winnie the Pooh in a gimp outfit - making fun of a fictional character.

If Christians are SO uncertain and worried that their own believes could be overturned by a play here and there they certainly do not have much faith in their believes even when you look at the fact that it has survived for 2000 years. But of course over the past 2000 years if you spoke up against the Church you wre killed or incarcerated or prosecuted. Hopefully, no more Christians will have to stand up and defend themselves with fact and logic rather than hiding behind laws and threats so that they DO NOT have to defend themselves as they argument would just fall apart anyway.

However, your mother Clive has some taste as she listens to the radio alot! I suggest see listens to more of the science programmes as well.

Nah, carry on David B

David B I agree with you totally. I have thought for the past coule of years about getting my TV altered so I cannot pick up terrestrial TV and hence no licence fee required. There was a time many years ago when I would have to watch a TV programme while taping two others on video recorders as there was so much good stuff on. These days I can go away for three days and not even bother taping anything.

So carry on moaning (erm making your point)

Burning a TV licence is only like burning a receipt, a symbolic waste of time.
Refusing to pay for one's next licence *might* mean something.

I point you at the MediaWatch link below specifically regarding showing the exorcism and the sentence:

"Last year C4?s live TV séance had 700 complaints."

A few errors and fact left out of this sentence:

1) The programme they refer to is the Derren Brown Special.
2) It was not live.
3) It was not a séance - it was a TRICK. Derren said this ALL the way through.
4) all bar about 30 complaints were before the show (deja vu?).

Isn't it so simple to twist the truth of something in such an off hand short sentence.

When groups purporting to take the moral high-ground twist the truth it damages them.

Oops the link:

http://www.mediawatchuk.org/newssnippets/January%202005.htm

Alf

An ex-Christian speaks!

http://www.derrenbrown.co.uk/news.asp

Danm it I really wanted to watch it, if only cause the more people who watched it the pissed of Mary Whitehouses crowd would have been.

BTW...

Della anychance you could give us a clue when you change you nickname, it is quite confusing.

Did anyone see this programme? Apparently it was shown on Christmas day, which I thought was a wonderful alternative viewing option for those not of the religious persuation. Just wondering if it was as good as it sounded in the article.


"Bible is 'lies and spin,' says C4"

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1376992,00.html

"Now it has attracted anger from Christian groups over its plans to screen a documentary which dismisses some parts of the Bible as untrue and attacks others as being a 'masterwork of spin'."

"Evangelical groups are angry that Who Wrote the Bible?, which will go out at 8.30pm, paints a negative picture of Christian organisations and suggests links between them and the troubles in the Middle East."


az

Hi Ferrett

Yeah. I wouldn't have watched (well, I would but I wouldn't have known about it) had it not been for all the publicity.

Thank you lunatic Christians!

Ice.

I am fully gutted I missed it to tell the truth...