h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The second half of your question is a straw man. I venture to suggest that no-one will ever be threatened with having their benefits cut off for not taking a job as a prostitute.

Just as (different reasons, but same result) no-one is cut off now for not joining the army, despite the fact they always have posts...

sprout

So both of you have to accept it's not a normal occupation.

Why?

Doesn't necessarily come to what is 'normal' or not 'normal' occupation though does it?; I'd be really supprized if my job centre tried to make me take a job as a pole dancer or building construction site worker, as a blind fat bastard I'd really not be suited to either job... Some people the job would suit, others it won't I don't even think the UK job centre (or job centre plus as I think it now is), is dumb enough to force people into work that they're entirely unsuited for/unable to do, they'd not have the job very long were that to be the case....
Actually quite a leap of avoiding the question to leap from the question of legalisation of prostitution to details regarding the UK unemployment policy

Being a teacher isnt a normal occupation.

Neither is being a Doctor, same goes or acting being a professional sports performer and or that matter neither is being a sports coach a normal occupation.

What makes prostitution stand out from the ordinary is that like being a teacher or Doctor you are required to be intimately interested in what is goinging on with people you may not give a damn about personally.

Like a Chiropodist or nurse you are brought into contact with relative strangers in a way that most people wouldnt be in there jobs.

Like actors or sports performers you are expected to make an emotinal and/or physical effort that most peole wouldnt be willing or able to make.


You're right it is out of the ordinary, what's your point?

It's fairly obvious to say that there ought to be fair exceptions to any policy which forces an unemployed person to take a particular job or lose their benefits. It would be wrong to make a vegetarian take a job in a butchers, a pacifist to take a job in an arms factory, a Catholic to take a job in an abortion clinic and so on and so forth.

I'm not sure that there is a point, except that we have a curious situation where someone can legally offer a service but the customer can be prosecuted for buying.

Further, as I understand it, if the Police raid a brothel the only person liable for prosecution is the madame/pimp for living off immoral earnings.

Also confusing the issue is the difference in law between Scotland & England. Isn't it a crime to solicit in one or both countries?

Well curious is one word for it downright disgraceful is another.

In days gone by if you "entertained" people and in return received fancy jobs, presents and titles for keeping people company then you were called a courtesan. Now our law makers and judges are well known for their regular exposes as being users of prostitutes yet these self same people refuse to countenance letting working class women operate a business doing what comes naturally to all of us without putting entirely odd rules stopping people safely and freely using the means of production that nature gave them.

one love

"We have a curious situation where someone can legally offer a service but the customer can be prosecuted for buying."

I could be wrong, but I believe it is legal to buy fireworks in this country, but illegal to sell them. Only the vendors can be prosecuted.

Back to the specific topic: On a BBC "Have your say" board, someone once said something like, "Consensual sex between adults is no more the government's business if it involves money than if it doesn't."

I can't really see any reason to disagree with that summary.

TRiG.

Yes I'd like to see it legalised with healt-checks etc for those involved.

I don't mind seeing the jobs advertised in the job centre.

For me, I can't actually imagine that benefits would be stopped, so I'm not going to comment on that one.

>>Would you prefer to see prostitution legalised in licensed brothels where the women have ready access to healthcare, addiction services & counselling? Not to mention paying taxes and having employment rights?

If so, would you be happy for prostitute's jobs to be advertised in the Jobcentre and for your wife/sister/daughter/mother to be threatened with losing their benefits if they didn't take the job?<<

To the first part, very much so. I think that would be the ideal situation.

To the second point, that doesn't happen. If you have a valid moral reason not to take a certain job, they won't cut off your benefits for not doing so. Last summer when I was claiming benefits and applying for jobs constantly, I was offered a job with a Catholic youth outreach project for which I was well-qualified, but I turned it down because of my moral objections to working with people who seek to deny my human rights.

I explained this to the Jobcentre and they were fine with it.

"I don't see in what way the exploitation via sex is *fundamentally* different from other forms of exploitation. Do you feel as strongly about gigolos, McKay?"

I do, and rent boys, live sex shows, and pornography.

All this is not just about sex though.

If the client wants more than straight sex the prositute is often pressurised to supply it.

Men who use prostitutes (male or female) generally have a poor attitude to sex, and their own need for it, this spills over into violence, add money into the equation and you understand why prostitutes are regularly the victims of crime.

There is an argument that 'sex therapists' provide a service that satisfies undesirable needs and thus prevents other women from being attacked - however I do not thing this ia an acceptable reason for allowing people to be exploited.

Legislation seems to be an option in my neighbourhood:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/02/28/RedLightIdeaGlowsBrighter/

(2005)as

But it wasn't news then just as it wasn't decades ago or now:

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Light-Neon-History-Vancouvers/dp/0973667524

Neither the mayor in 2005 or the author seem to think that sex trade workers are particularly evil.

McKay, you still haven't really answered why the sex industry is fundamentally different from other forms of exploitation that people are perfectly free to be subject to. Do explain.

Leaving aside the crime side like slavery, and rape you mean.

I could argue that one is risking ones life working as a sexual object - but doubtless people would raise the armed forces.

I could argue that many people using prostitutes have either domination or subjegation fantasies which they wish to play out, and the dangers of those.

I could say that agreeing to have sex with someone for money involves lowering your standards to unacceptable levels for financial gain - I find it unlikely that all customers would be sexually attractive.

But in the end I will say that if one is prepared to sell ones own body in return for financial gain, either one has a very low value attached to oneself, or one is extremeley desperate for money.

I see prostitution as a form of slavery, even if the worker keeps all the money, because ultimately you are selling your body. If you don't understand that then I feel sorry for you, because you obviously have some issues of your own.

<>

Of course. Stop being dense.

You're still not really answering the question as to why it's different from other forms of exploitation. I know what your opinion is, I'm wondering why you think it's fundamentally different to other risks etc in other walks of life.

<>

Well, fine. But if someone chooses to do it, they should be put in jail or whatever? Should we inter F1 drivers for doing suchy risky activities? Boxers?

<>

Now you're just being an arse.

McKay, are you sure your position isn't more than just:

"ugh"

?

I feel particularly uncomfortable about prostitution compared to other risky jobs. I'm not sure why. I wonder if its just my own territorialism kicking in, or maybe 'English reserve'.

Leaving aside the crime side like slavery, and rape you mean.
Yes, leave that aside, they're not intrinsically linked, this would be like saying all bars shoudl stop selling Stella on the basis that yobs sometimes chose that drink.

I could argue that one is risking ones life working as a sexual object - but doubtless people would raise the armed forces.
One's risking ones life working in the construction or building trade//...

I could argue that many people using prostitutes have either domination or subjegation fantasies which they wish to play out, and the dangers of those.
Mind caring to explain the 'dangers' of them?

I could say that agreeing to have sex with someone for money involves lowering your standards to unacceptable levels for financial gain - I find it unlikely
that all customers would be sexually attractive.
I have to lower myself to not only work with, be professional with but accept some of my work colegues are earning five or more times my salary doing a job I could do better. Its about profesionalism that I work with them on a profesional basis whatever I might think of them personally/socially/intelectually.

But in the end I will say that if one is prepared to sell ones own body in return for financial gain, either one has a very low value attached to oneself,
or one is extremeley desperate for money.
We each sell our body if we work, weahter that is as a manager in a posh office, a kid behind the counter in McD or , in prostitution.

I see prostitution as a form of slavery, even if the worker keeps all the money, because ultimately you are selling your body. If you don't understand that
then I feel sorry for you, because you obviously have some issues of your own.
Oh, really... I don't see that at all....

You all seem to think I have a religous angle on this - I don't - religion can teach us all something about exploiting women.

I do have a 'moral' problem with it. I personally find the idea of selling my body for sex distasteful, and would worry about the tastes of anyone prepared to use it nowadays. I'm no longer pretty, and my good features are not immediately apparent.

For some reason my finding it morally objectionable seems to cause you all a problem - you are prepared to accept that slavery is morally wrong, and as I've said I see prostitution as slavery, even if the worker keeps all the money.

Is this because you equate morality with religion ?

And just for 2legs - do you not think there might be dangers in letting a complete stranger tie you up ? at the very least they might take their money back before they left.

It's the prostitution as slavery link that I have difficulty with.

There are plenty of other demeaning, degrading or dangerous jobs out there. Is prostitution so different that it becomes slavery? At every level, including the small percentage of top earners?

I find prostitution morally degrading personally, and would not employ one, but I find other professions - spiritualists, quack homeopaths, loan sharks, financial speculators - morally wrong as well - this does not mean that I have a legitimate expectation that they should cease to exist.

sprout