h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Have the workers improved their productivity, do they work in worse conditions, longer hours? Surely there has to be some reason for paying them more, rather than just 'Hey lads there's more money in the pot because monthly pay costs less to process so we'll have it'"

Hmmmm weekly pay is part of their terms and ocnditions. It is a term and ocndition that almost exclusivly posties I know want to keep. If the company want to worsen our T&Cs then they have to give us something in return, this is how collective bargaining works.

I know lots of right wingers hanker after the good old vitorian days where bosses could do whatever they liked and if workers objected they were sent to the workhouses but things have changed.

So weekly pay is seen as a perk of the job? Interesting how different people have different views. I would much rather be on monthly.

But a perceived perk is still a perk.

Yeah me to, all my bills are monthly. I personally cannot understand what the fuss is about. But I do understand why the posties want some of the benefit if they have to accept a change they don't want.

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And it would, if it were just one... as of next week there will have been at least three that I can think of in the last couple of months.

One of the guys who works for me is a postie part time what he said makes a lot of sense to me.

"Im doing something for the company waht are they going to do for me"?

Now the posties getting a part of the saving they are being asked to help make possible doesnt seem such a big deal.

As for the change in delivery hours of I think this could be to the benefit of management in terms of unsocial hours payments and guys like Kevin who coaches part time in the afternoons. He's out early and finishes early leaving him time to do other stuff before his wife gets home form work. If the trend towards later deliveries continues he will lose this social and finacial perk that was part of the job when he started. Shouldnt he be compensated for the mamnagement taking that away?

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And it would, if it were just one... as of next week there will have been at least three that I can think of in the last couple of months."

My lord that is disingenuous in the extreme. It has been one period of IA on the same ballot. There was a brief period in which a moratoruim was called to rtry and reach a deal that failed.

This isnt mutiple industrial disputes, it is one disputer with the IA happening on a rolling basis instead of one continous strike.

It's nearly 20 years since I was a postie and some things never change. Management are arrogant tw@ts and the Union takes cutting off their noses to spite their faces to new levels at every opportunity.

Royal Mail is doomed. Since the 80's, the plan has been to break it up into smaller pieces and privatise it - a policy started by Thatcher and continued enthusiastically by Nu Labour. For the postie, the job seems to have changed beyond recognition. They are certainly treated like sh!t and subjected to constant provocation by management. But every time they strike, they take a step nearer to the exit door. The UCW never understood the principle of picking the right fights. If they'd stood up forcefully to maintain two deliveries, they would have had massive public support. Instead, they're going on strike because they're going to be paid monthly instead of weekly - just as the majority of workers are

The "What's in it for me Guv?" approach to industrial relations is just petty, but is typical of the inept, pathetic and (at one time anyway) corrupt UCW.

". If they'd stood up forcefully to maintain two deliveries, they would have had massive public support."

But there is no way we oculd have done that as it would not have been a trade dispute. They went to "Single Daily Delivery" with out it representing CWU grades at all and if we had balloted it would have been illegal.

" Instead, they're going on strike because they're going to be paid monthly instead of weekly -"

Did you even read what I wrote SWL? The bit about pay frequency was just an example of how what Royal Mail doing is not what it says on the tin.

"The "What's in it for me Guv?" approach to industrial relations is just petty, "

Got to say you have me stumped there SWL, surely the *whole* point of why a union is there is to look after what is in it for the members.

" but is typical of the inept, pathetic and (at one time anyway) corrupt UCW."

Well I don't recognise that in the CWU today. THat isn't to say we odn't make mistakes but still....

What Royal Mail are proposing to do is change our hours of working and reduce our benefits, make between a third and a quater of us redundant, make our pensions worth 10 grand less each, and totally destroy whatever remains of the service we offer.

Really what choice do the union have but to fight it, and if we didnt what would be the point of our Union?

Sorry FB - I hadn't read your post properly. (I'm struggling with a truly hopeless wireless internet connection that drops every 10 seconds, so it's difficult to do anything)

If the strike is about the issues you say it is (and I have no reason to doubt you), then the CWU has failed in the very first battle - the media war. That doesn't really surprise me because I have nothing but the deepest contempt for that particular union.

In 1988, I and my colleagues were called out on a number of one-day strikes in a row over bonuses. The Union eventually cut a deal with management that gave bonuses to city sorting offices and screwed all the regional ones. The union leaders had to have a police escort to protect them from their own members.

About rthe media battle I agree we have done badly. Most people don't understand what we are striking about, It isnt really about pay at all. It is very difficult though for any Union to get decent media coverage I think. In almost every dispute I ever read about you hardly get any background, and most media outlets are pretty anti union.

The deal you talk about sounds rough.

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Right, if you mean period of industrial action say 'period of industrial action'. You said 'strike' of which there have been more than a few. Trust me on this... if it were one strike us poor buggers in the office at Wheatstone House wouldn't have kept being given new sets of posters to put in envelopes for sending to Post Offices.

Mr D You said:-

"A lot of the problem is that the CWU wishes it was representing miners in the 80s... the solution to everything that doesn't go their way is 'strike!'"

I said:-

"One national strike in 10 years would beg to differ."

There has only been one thing in 10 years that has caused a national strike. That strike haas been carried out over a number of different days in the various different offices and funtions and will continue to do so until resloved.

FB - I'm 100% behind the postal workers in the current dispute - however were I sitting oppposite you at the negotiating table I woud be digging my heels in and saying get rid of this guy he lives in a Socialist fantasy world.

Now why would I be saying that ? Because you said this "I know lots of right wingers hanker after the good old vitorian days where bosses could do whatever they liked and if workers objected they were sent to the workhouses but things have changed."

Many right wingers are union members, and this type of thinking immediately discriminates against some of your members, and is partly why have I have resigned from TSSA.

This Government (a Labour government) wants to close the Post Office, forcing it into an unequal competition whilst taking away all their aces. If I were you I'd encourage your members to vote Tory as soon as possible - at least some of them will still be in work.

Ok I will give you that McKay it was a still "grandstanding" thing to say and in truth I regretted posting it. I would like to think that you would imagine the way I conduct my job is different from the way I post on here eh?

In fact one of the things I dislike about *my* union (and I think by extension other unions) is the way many people see it as a vehicle to pursue personal political agendas. I think there has to be a duality between what Ferrettbadger the politically aware private individual says and thinks, and what Ferrettbadger the elected representative thinks.

For example as an individual I was passionately against the invasion of Iraq, I went on that lovely waste of time march we did. However at my work (a call centre in a garrison town and naval port) a good half of my members are either service wives, mothers or siblings. I was mad as hell to see the top bods in our union pontification on this issue that had nothing to do with what we do and really upsetting my members.

I do however think there is one point I owuld make in relation to my ill judged comment, there is a train of thought that some people have is that Trade Unions are inherantly wrong and put simply should not be entitled to try and get anything for their members. You can imagine McKay that train of thought tgends to rub me up the wrong way just a teeny bit and I saw a shade of that in the comment about how the workers shouldn't be entitled to any of the saving on the wage change.

I suppose I come at it the other way - if you're right wing you think everyone should stand on their own two feet and the workers are there to be exploited because it all they're good for.

I get angry that no-one can see that I can be right leaning, yet have always been - until recently a union member.

I guess we're both scared of being typecast, and yes, I posted more in anger than rational thought.

These sort of debates are always a bit emotive. Especially if it is your union on strike eh?

Still wokring in the complaint call centre division of Royal Mail I would hope for a quick resolution just to make my life a bit easier on the phones !

Just been talking about this with the wife. As I said earlier, I was a postie for a couple of years in the late 80's. For me, they were the last days of a truly world class service. I took over from the guy who had delivered mail to our house for over 40 years. Everybody knew Sandy and I was genuinely proud to fill his shoes. In those days, the postie fulfilled a role in the community. I used to pass on messages between housewives, ("Can you give Jean a wee knock & tell her I'll pick her up at 11" kind of thing). The postie was a natural receptacle for gossip and knew his route and the people on it like the back of his hand. Letters with the most farcical addresses were delivered - we all took pride in deciphering them.

But then a decision was taken to vandalise an institution that was envied the world over. Bits were broken off and sold on, posties were rotated around routes and a provocative management began to goad the workforce at every opportunity.

I sympathise with FB, but the Royal Mail is screwed. There's going to be one strike too many and a tipping point will be reached.

Sad times

Morning FB.

Sorry but I just cannot buy into your idea that if changes to payroll methods saves money, you and you colleagues should get it.

That is part of the reason why The PO is in its present mess. Money saved by making the business more efficient ( not by the workers ) should be ploughed back into the operation to increase productivity in some way.

You have previously mentioned underfunding - yet here you are asking for some of it! Oh, and BTW part of the reason why you have to accept changes in working practices is that the rest of the world does....it's called staying ahead in a competitive world.

Novo

What I've noticed over the past say ten or fifteen years is a one club golfer, management solution to some of the problems faced by our public sector businesses. The re-engineering solutions that worked in banks or supermarkets, proposed and 'driven in' by young, inexpereinced but academically bright MBAs, might not and have not worked in the NHS, Post Office or Royal Mail. A different mind set is needed.

I have worked both sides of the fence and fell into the above trap when trying to reform a public sector business. But when I took a step back and looked at the problems that change presents to people who may well have been in dull but essential jobs for twenty years and don't understand the concepts of quality, excellenece, virtuous circles or continuous development you can achieve results, but it takes longer and calls for more patience

I have also seen how a bunch of cowboy consultants from a well known accounatncy firm whispered in senior management's ear and proceeded to rake in long thousands of pounds over several years and produce a complete cock up. Yes i have some sympathy for thr Royal Mail.

"We know that messing with it in the traditional way doesn't work... So, let's try it again".

novosibirsk said

Yes, and sharing some of the proceeds breeds conscientiousness and that's called 'forward thinking'.