h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Comparing the UK to France can be useful but we are a few steps away from where they are in terms of ethnic relations.

The Front National (Nazis) of france and the BNP (nazis of the Uk are streets apart in terms of political influence.


What Ive seen of racial motovated attack statistics (and some of you may know I take a fairly keen interest in the subject) shows that there is an anecdotal increase in Muslims and Black ("Nation of Islam" rehtoric inspired) people targetting Jews. Sensational as they are the biggest group guily of these statistically and in total numbers are white neo-nazi inspired attacks. that's in the UK and I dont really know about France because I dont do my community work there.

Actaully speaking from experience, because with some crimes statistics are hopeless, asian people dont see the point in engaging with a police force who they see as favouring white people because the police do have a long folk history and fully documented record of not taking ethnic minority issues as seriously as they might. It might help if there were more brown faces in blue uniforms...I dont know maybe a little positive action employmentwise might help

one love

That's the same type of twisting that goes on in Europe.

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002026.html

"Anti-Semitic violence is on the rise in several EU countries, including Britain, with “young white men” the main perpetrators, the EU’s anti-racism office said today."

That's the headline. But it doesn't actually fit with the report's findings-

"The headline findings contradict the body of the report. This says most of the 193 violent attacks on synagogues, Jewish schools, kosher shops, cemeteries and rabbis in France in 2002 - up from 32 in 2001 - were "ascribed to youth from neighbourhoods sensitive to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, principally of North African descent. "The percentage attributable to the extreme Right was only nine per cent in 2002," it said."

So an example of figures from France necessarily translate to the whole EU does it SWL?

Seems to me that you have used something of a logical fallacy there.

Um, has somebody towed us further into the Atlantic?

It was a report for Europe, by a European body :

"A report, released at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, cited Britain, Belgium, the Netherlands, France and Germany as among the EU countries where anti-Semitic incidents are the rise.

The report found that during the first three months of last year Britain saw a 75% increase in incidents over the same period in 2002. The report said there were two cases of suspected arson and several attacks on Jewish cemeteries."

Headline was attacks across the EU up, with young whit men perpetrators.

You say that this isnt the case, and quote a statistic about France to back up your claim.

I am pretty clear.

Does common sense leave the room on this issue?

The Muslim population of Europe *including* the UK has dramatically increased.

Muslims historically do not exactly "rub along well" with Jews.

Muslims and Jews go at it hammer & tongs with the slightest provocation in and around Israel.

Attacks on Jews have increased as the Muslim population has grown.

Coincidence?

From the link in post 12 -
"As long as anti-Semitism came from the extreme right there was a reaction," said Ms. Lefèbvre, who has written about anti-Semitism and sexism in the schools. "But when it came from that part of the population that itself was a victim of racism, no one wanted to see it."

On reading that "article" you linked to is nothing more than a propergander piece.

And you wonder why people question your political allegiances SWL?

http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2006/09/12/public-service-announcement-hate-sites/

A similarly "impartial" site that calls parapundit a "hate" site.

True SWL the Muslim population is increasing.

True The number of attacks on Jewish people, their property and synagogues have increased.

Now even if those were the ONLy two things in Europe that had happened in the recent past Id still not be hppy drwing the conclusion that they are causally linkined it could just be coincidence.

Now I have seen figures in the Guardian that said most attacks by whites with a racially motivated element were by.....whites. Of these a disproportionate to their numbers in the population were on Jewish people.

Now I know just how vicious and stupid below the level of an animal an angry racially bent person or mob of people can be, but I havent really come across this as a problem. either personally or in specific cases in Europe Ive read about. I havent read everything though so I dont rule it out that there are lots of Muslims in Europe who go around carrying out such attacks.

However I do know that there are white people who do this I do know that an increasing number of white people in some European countries choose to vote for people who have expressed a dislike and even hatred of Jewish people. These are recorded facts. Unless votes have been rigged and there is such a level of white middle class guilt by the staff at the Guardian that they are covering up for Muslims.

That's why Im more inclined to think the increase in Anti-Semitism is more likely down to white people. You think otherwise because you think in a racist way and have shown time and again a knee jerk anti muslim bias equal to or exceeding the anti-semitic bias which you are trying to insisit that those extra Muslims you claim are guilty for the attacks might have.

one love

You're joking, right?

The Muslim population has grown exponentially, along with hatred marches, murders, assasinations, bombings and the evil white racists have increased their attacks on Jews?

Now either you're ascribing sophisticated thought processes to thugs, where they've ascribed that Muslim intolerance is rooted in Jewish practices, or your deliberately ignoring what's in front of your face.

Try applying Occam's Razor.

Correlation does not equal causation. No matter how much of your "common sense" you try to apply to it.

SoRB, I guess it's fine if jews are emmigrating to Israel - actually, I would tend to say "your loss" b/c the ones that emmigrate (of any religion/race) are usually the ones who also do all sorts of great things for society. Heck, do you think the US would have developped the bomb first in WWII if it weren't for all those German-jewish immigrants? You think american scientists would have gotten the job done?!?!?


Anyway, but that's just part of the issue. The other part is the supposed link between violence against jews and their immigration. I'm surprised that you would say its good that they're leaving, rather than "1) Holy ******* **** this is a serious problem maybe we should try to reduce violence against jews and 2) well OK at least they have somewhere to go, but again 3) we better do something about the violence"

There goes the Iraq war fuelling terrorism then.

" There goes the Iraq war fuelling terrorism then."

Yep. Unless there is evidence of a causal link.

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FB, I'm not discounting that, but I'd argue that the rise in the far Right could equally be ascribed to Muslim immigration (and activities).

And as for causal links between attacks on Jews and Muslim immigration, Hizb-ut-Tahar calling for Muslims to kill all Jews would have nothing to do with anything I suppose.

Look I dont think that the idea that Islamic youth are attcking jews is unreasonable. Just that you seemed to be ascribing it just to that. I think the BNP are just as responsible.

Actually Blicky - I find the UK a good model for figuring out what's going on in French politics and the 'General French Mindset'...

Only 20 years out of step.

If you think about it, the UK had one of their largest influxes of immigrants starting back in the 1950s, whereas the French's was in the latter half of the sixties and into the seventies...

Where the UK had Toxteth, Brixton, etc. back in the 80s, the French get riots in the suburbs today...

Economically France is back in the pre-Thatcherite era... inefficient nationalised industries, mass unemployment, unions running amok, strikes, a plethora of seemingly 'impotent' governments, high taxes, stiffling of any entrepreneurial spirit etc.

One of the main reasons the extreme right has been so strong over the last few years has been the lack of trust in any of the 'centre' political parties - and now it looks like we might be heading for our own Thatcher in 2007(Sarkozy) - which would be a slight improvement over Le Pen anyway.

Fair enough, that's some progress I suppose.

I find it bizarre that we have a rise in numbers of Group A who hate Group B, but Group C get blamed for a rise in attacks.

Well Group C are pretty well known for hating Group B as well.

Look up a thing called the Holocaust.