h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi all,

This is my first posting on this H2G2 site, so most of you will not know me at all.

I was born and brought up in India in a traditional Hindu family though I have lived most of my life in England. I am a professional Engineer and I came to Britain in the mid-60's on the basis that my particular expertise was valued in Britain at the time. As it happens, it still is.

As such, I am very familiar with the issue being discussed. After all, India is the second largest Muslim Country in the world (in terms of Muslim population).

I have to say that this issue never came up when I was living in India. Muslims there feel no need to wear the burqua or the niqab and certainly were not as vociferous in their demands as they are in today's Britain.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with SWL in his message 1542, about Egypt. I know for a fact that many Muslims in progressive countries like Egypt regard with absolute horror the liberal stand taken by Britain on this issue. They know from past experience how terrible the cosequences can be.

Unfortunately, knowing India as I do, I have to agree with SWL on his second link also. The fact is that Islamists are pursuing a ruthless campaign to terrorise the local population into submission. Whether they wish to wear the burqua or niqab is no consideration to the ruthless Islamists. They enforce their will by whatever means they can, as the news article shows.

The last link provided by SWL is EXTREMELY INSTRUCTIVE.

If Islam is such a tolerant religion, why does it regard the wearing of such compulsory on part of those Muslims and non-Muslims who do NOT wish to wear it?

The facts are terribly simple and staring us in the face!

Islam is by far and away, the most intolerant belief system the world has ever seen!

Regards.

Prashna

Well, Nazi facism was a belief system of a kind, and I wouldn't say Islam was anywhere near that level, but I get what you're saying.

Maybe we can have the discussion without trying to sledge it into racism this time.

We are talking about Islam - a religion followed by every colour of person on the planet. The discussion should address how the Islamic issue impacts upon non-Muslims and Muslims alike.

Islam has been in the UK in numbers since the 50's, but it is only in the last few years that we have seen violence and intolerance. Ironically, or maybe inevitably, intolerance breeds intolerance. The Islamic condition is reflected simultaneously throughout the world in general and Europe in particular.

It is argued that Muslims are reacting to institutional racism, but that does not explain why Sikhs and Hindus are accepted so readily, nor does it explain that multiple cultures have the same problem with Muslims.

There is a basic question that needs to be asked. Is Islam incompatible with a Liberal Democracy. Before anyone tries to shift focus onto Christianity, democracy in the west came from Christian societies.

And welcome to HooToo Prashna. I am sure your background and experiences will enrich the discussion.

Yes, Welcome Prashna

I am hopeful that yours will be the voice which the original thread needed so badly!

Welcome indeed

Novo

Just got to take issue with a tiny point of fact here SWL...

"democracy in the west came from Christian societies"

Democracy is an Athenian concept first implemented in pre-Christian Greece, so surely it's strange to immediately assert the view that Western democracy comes from Christian society?

I am hugely dissapointed that TPTB have closed the orgional thread. But given that they have perhaps it is not the wisest thing in the world for such a contentious thread to start again?

Might it not be slightly more prudent to wait for the "fall out" of the "VeilCrossgate" thread to pan out before kicking things off again?

Point taken. It's hard to argue however, that democracy is almost a defining quality of the West and has taken hold despite the strong sway held by the church a few centuries ago.

Notwithstanding the fact that the largest democracy in the world is India.

Well it's pretty much unarguable that democracy is the defining quality of the West, but I can't really attribute it to Christianity or indeed to any religion. Maybe it's the form that my studies have taken, but the way I've always seen it is that the rule of the people has surfaced as a challenge to religion and religious monarchy, taking the French revolution against absoloute monarchy ruling by divine right as a case in point.

Anyway, that's another conversation for another day

Going back to your original points I do find it interesting that on the outside the fundamentalist interpretation of Islam taking root in Europe seems to be incompatible with democracy, at least on the surface. The thing is, whenever I hear more moderate Muslims talk it appears that there is no precedent for this in any of the holy text. Perhaps rather than laying the blame on the religion itself, it is the strange interpretation which prevails in extremists which we need to address with the help of more integrated sections of the Muslim population?

I appreciate your deviousness in getting around the rules. I'm keeping well out, though. I'm under an ASBO.

It seems to me that democracy emerged at least in part due to the established Church tearing itself apart, and very much in spite of clerical authorities.

Was it the police, the CPS, or the local council wot got you yer ASBO?

FB, I see no point in avoiding discussing a topic just because one person fails to understand the issues. The previous thread was wide-ranging and educational, bringing in sources not normally covered by the BBC and largely informative & interesting for many.

The thread was closed because one person could not bring themselves to abide by House Rules. It was not the subject matter that led to the closure.

Pleased to make your acquaintance, Prashna. You turned up here oh so appropriately, out of the blue. Fancy you being such a fan of that Gers supporter, SWL!!!

I disagree SWL (funny that). I think the Eds have got it quite wrong and I am currently in email correspondance in which I have told them just that.

I think this is a contoversial subject in which I for one am a little concerned about posting in. Put bluntly I feel that some posters on the previous thread posted things that I personally consider to be motivated by either concious or un-concious racism, no names mentioned. In this climate and until TPTB can get thier legal advice if they feel that a topic is to controversial I think we should wait until they feel that they can re-open the old one.

And that is what I will be putting to the eds.

The only time racism came up was when others tried to subvert the discussion away from the subject. The thread being closed reflects society perfectly. For years the left-wing apologists tried to close any debate about Islam with cries of racism. So strange that the socialists strenuously attempt to link anti-Islam concerns with the BNP, given that the extremist Islamists and the BNP have so much in common. Both are supremacists. It's no coincidence that a senior member of the BNP found it so easy to convert to Islam & take up a senior position in the MCB. I don't find it coincidental that "Mein Kampf" is so popular amongst Muslims.

I repeat, it was not the subject matter that led to the thread being closed, it was the blatant breaches of House Rules that did for it in the end.

So you say, but notice that the Eds did not put said researcher on pre-mod, but rather CLOSED THE THREAD.

Are people who constantly complain about Christianity also racist?

I don't think criticising religion is racist, as religion and race are quite different. You can opt out of being a member of a religion, but not of a racee.

I've started a thread on Community Soapbox on the thread closure, as a means of keeping discussion centralised. Can we take that part of the discussion there?

F55683?thread=3739146


kea.

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