h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"You made that up? Wow. What can I say? You offensive ba*tard. The mask has finally slipped. Now you're making accusations against moslems as a whole group, rather than qualifying your racism with the words "extremist" or "fundamentalist" Well done Starbirth - you've just outed yourself."

Not in the slightest. He's parodying the rest of you for making outlandish and racist statements about America and Americans without even bothering to check your facts. The way his parody sounded to you is the way your genuine attacks often sound to him. He's holding a mirror up to your own prejudices.

It was pretty crude, but it's probably one of the best posts Starbirth's done to this thread, if only for the debate it's kicked off.

May I just echo the offensiveness level Starbirth attained, Zagreb, by pointing out how po-faced, self-righteous, middle-aged and wannabe Yanqui *you* sound?
It wasn't a clever parody birth did, it was simply a statement in keeping with the ignorance of all other cultures/countries Americans so often show! That's how I took it...

Americans are ignorant .....Nahhhhh

Ignorance among Americans?

Have you seen what PIPA do? The Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) carries out research on public attitudes on international issues by conducting nationwide polls, focus groups and comprehensive reviews of polling conducted by other organizations.
http://www.pipa.org/

Heres some of their findings on common American misperceptions over Israel and Palestine. Such as "Asked whether "so far this year, more Israelis or more Palestinians have died in the conflict, or is the number roughly equal?" only 32% of respondents were aware that more deaths have occurred on the Palestinian side than on the Israeli side"

http://www.americans-world.org/digest/regional_issues/Israel&Palestinians/mispercep.cfm

but,

"Asked whether "greater instability in the Middle East" was "likely or unlikely;if the US sends ground troops into Iraq," an overwhelming 74% thought it likely (not likely, 21%; Time/CNN, August 2002). "
http://www.americans-world.org/digest/regional_issues/Conflict_Iraq/concerns.cfm

The majority reckon that attacking Iraq makes terrorism in the USA more likely. But support for a ground troop invasion remains at over 50%

http://www.americans-world.org/digest/regional_issues/Conflict_Iraq/mil_action.cfm

Why?? For greater instability in the Middle East and more terrorism in the West?

Did anyone see the Bremner Bird and Fortune progamme on channel4 at the weekend... along with some terrible gags there was some interesting history. The west have been meddling and bombing the area since the early 20th century, to exert influence over the oil wells.

(stating the bleedin obvious)

I am sick of that 51%. Me and All others of the 49%*peaceful american, taxpayer not benefitting from the trickle down theory*

ahem - 06/01/03

Damn - missed a page.

"Not in the slightest. He's parodying the rest of you for making outlandish and racist statements about America and Americans without even bothering to check your facts."

Find me one Zagreb. One.

And I'll deliver to Starbirth the most grovelling, humble apology you could imagine.

"just a little on the promise thing: Muslims are no obliged to keep a promise or contract with a non-muslim."

later... "Just something i made up. Gets you kind of upset when people make unfounded accussations. The kind some have made about my nation."

First, does it make sense to slander a religion in retaliation for someone else slandering your nation?

Second, if you make a statement that you believe to be true, will it carry any credibility after this? "No, I really mean it this time!" Sure. Muslims are not obliged to honor promises and Bush is concerned for the people of Iraq. We're ready to believe you.

"May I just echo the offensiveness level Starbirth attained, Zagreb, by pointing out how po-faced, self-righteous, middle-aged and wannabe Yanqui *you* sound? "

po-faced - Me?! Hardly

Middle-Aged - (?!) I'm 26.

Self-Righteous - Guilty as charged.

Wannabe Yanqui - Typical extremism. Say that you don't think America is nothing but evil and you must be a CIA plant or a "wannabe Yanqui". I think there's a great deal wrong with America and how it handles itself. But, like most extremists, you ignore that and concentrate on how I differ from your by-the-book set-in-stone idea of what constiutes "left-wing" and throw the absurd accusation that I am a raving Tory or a stooge of Bush. Grow up.

Amazing how law, sarcasm and political correctness can be rolled into one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2636211.stm
"
A German man could be jailed for three years over a comment posted on the internet, in which prosecutors say he belittled the events of 11 September.
.
.
.
.
The apparently offending remarks were made in response to a message posted by another internet user - Engine_of_Aggression - who appeared to be pleased about the alleged murders of thousands of Taleban fighters by local militias during the downfall of the Afghan regime in 2001.

"Congratulations to the people, who in this over-critical time, dare to grab evil at its root and eradicate it from the face of the earth!" wrote Engine_of_Aggression.

Mr Voss, who describes himself as an anti-militarist, responded:

"Yes, Congratulations to the murderers of 11.09.02.... Good, that on 11.09 a couple of real men (!) found the courage to show the evil ones, the USA how it really is!"

An anonymous complaint to the police led to the prosecution under a German law which forbids the glorification of a criminal act.
"

Brilliant Frogbit! Sums up the situation perfectly.
(Mirror front page that is)

"Find me one Zagreb. One."

OK, here's one from Della a few posts above:

"it was simply a statement in keeping with the ignorance of all other cultures/countries Americans so often show!"

An ignorance that purplejenny used the links she posted to outline! Be fair, Zagreb! Or at least try to be.. hey, take an aspirin and a nice cup of cocoa and settle under your tartan comforter with a copy of 'My Weekly', there's a good laddie...

Well nothing changes here does it?

Zagreb is getting all hot and bothered

Starbirth makes an offencive statement that he backs out of when called on it

Frogbit provides some reason and a good link - to go with it I read a few days ago that one of the plans for post war iraq involves 18months of US army "administration" (read military dictatorship) with a priority to securing the oil feilds (supposidly to prevent sadam destroying them).

About 4 pages or so back starbirth has put my name to something I didn't write. If this was the first time then I could dismiss it as a mistake. But it is not. My oldest neice starts highschool this year, maybe she could help you upskill... to how 13 year olds argue.

And perhaps americans better get used to a little knocking about, as jan. 28-03 is closing in.

TD.

4 paragraphs from the bottom of this link http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,789970,00.html

I thought part of purplejenny's post looked familiar.

Makes you see how easy war is generated, when posters do it too
Funny thing is I don't know the amount of Palestinian deaths versus Isreali death are either. To me it's all people deaths.
I don't hate Americans, they are people too, but I do dislike the current power base and what upsets me the most is that we on the 'outside' have all had to sit back and witness the terrrible way that W got into power, through corruption and what looks very like obvious vote rigging, and then had to sit back and watch as the American people let him get away with it!
What happened to the home of the brave and the land of the free?

Zagreb
"it was simply a statement in keeping with the ignorance of all other cultures/countries Americans so often show!"
Is hardly an out an out fabrication, more of a generalisation based on observation of the worst kind of American. Like I say, find me an out and out lie of the magnitude of "Muslims don't have to keep promises to non-Moslems" and I'll apologise.

Zagreb: "He's parodying the rest of you for making outlandish and racist statements about America and Americans without even bothering to check your facts."

Outlandish and racist comments. Suggesting ignorance is hardly outlandish or racist.If Della's posting is the best you can do then you're onto a loser. It was even posted *after* I made the offer, so you could hardly have had it in mind when writing your original post.


Zagreb: "Wannabe Yanqui - Typical extremism. Say that you don't think America is nothing but evil and you must be a CIA plant or a "wannabe Yanqui". I think there's a great deal wrong with America and how it handles itself. But, like most extremists, you ignore that and concentrate on how I differ from your by-the-book set-in-stone idea of what constiutes "left-wing" and throw the absurd accusation that I am a raving Tory or a stooge of Bush. Grow up."

"Typical extremism" = typical rejection without though, typical labelling of those with different opinions.

"Say that you don't think America is nothing but evil and you must be a CIA plant or a "wannabe Yanqui"
Never said America was evil, never been accused of being a wannabe Yanqui or CIA plant. I'm guessing the accusation was the result of something else Zagreb.


"But, like most extremists, you ignore that and concentrate on how I differ from your by-the-book set-in-stone idea of what constiutes "left-wing"

"Extremists", "left-wing" Nice one Zagreb - two labels in one sentence. Followed by "and throw the absurd accusation that I am a raving Tory or a stooge of Bush."

Right, so when you label it's common sense, and when someone suggests you are a conservative (and that's all they did Zagreb), then suddenly they called you a raving Tory and they are an extremist). Very balanced.
Have you asked yourself why they accused you of being conservative?

I for one am prepared to take your word for it. But I have some bad news. If you're not a conservative, then your keyboard is. All we have to go by are the words you type in. We can't see you, we can't hear how you speak, we don't know who your friends are. We can only go by how you come across. Conservative.

The news article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,789970,00.html

doesn't seem to mention that the news media also has a vested interest in a war through ratings and advertising revenues in addition to (the mentioned) interest in supporting the popular rhetoric of the present administration.