h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was watching my granddaughter last night.

Quick background...she is 4-1/2, has mild Cerebal Palsy, blind in one eye and partically sighted in the other, was a micropremie who spent the first 5 months of her life in the hospital, with those and many, many other problems and her mother left when she was 23 months old...which of course makes my son a single parent.

I have a hard time relating to my son because he reminds me so much of his father. Most of the time I can't see any of me in him. Needless to say, he is mixed up (just like the rest of us). I blame myself for a lot of that. When he was growing up, I couldn't even help myself so how could I help him? No, it wasn't blatant child abuse, but it was abuse. I couldn't stop his mental abuse anymore than I could stop my own. I couldn't change the ideas his father was putting into his head because I couldn't help myself. So I'm sitting here with a sh*tful of guilt.

He has demonstrated his rage for years (I haved the smashed doors to prove it. He had a pet rabbit who he thought he was 'training'. One day, when the rabbit did someone 'wrong', he took it and flung it across the room and broke it's back. He was not a child stricking out in rage, he was 25 years old at the time. He is now 28.

Jump to present ......

Before he brought my grand daughter over last night, he called me to let me know that she had been a shall we say rebellious all day. She had thrown a temper tantrum at the park (she was frustrated about not being able to climb as well as the other children),so he took her home. She had had a potty accident (normal in children this age - especially ones with CP). When he told her to take off her shoes, AFO's (leg braces) and clothes, she asked (told?) him to do it. He told her that she should do it herself. She wanted help. He said no. After 20 minutes, she had gotten off one shoe and one AFO (she CAN do this), he went over to her. She started yelling and kicking him. He then dragged her into her room and threw her on the bed (he admits all this). She has major rug burns across her chest. In order to reinforce his discpline (authority?), he then proceed to tell me, he wanted me to feed her and put her straight to bed.

Sidebar...
He needs anger management. He needs a private life. He told me he could have a private life if not for his daughter. He has no money for a babysitter. yada yada yada

Back to issue...

He brought her over. I spent the first hour with her cuddled in my arms. She never said a word. Krispy has meet her. He knows that this is just not like her. As he pointed out last night, "B, this is abuse!" I *know* it is abuse (but thank you for confirming it ).

What do I do? At least, I have to confront my son...at most, I need to report it to the authorities. Good god, I have worked as a child avocate. If I had seen anyone else do this, I would have been on the phone hours ago. But this is family . Is this a single incident? I wish, but probably not. I'm wrestling with demons.

Help me out here, guys.

Thanks

Dear Heavens Richenda! Yes, it is abuse the way I understand abuse ... but what is the law in your part of the world? And who else could take care of her? What are the 'care options' available to her over there?

God, we started to talk about this yesterday... and I have to say that things like that make me feel so very sad...

Obviously this is just my opinion, and what constitutes abuse is relative to some degree. I believe that discipline, when administered properly, serves less as punishment for conduct and more as guidance which teaches self-control, character, and acceptance of and adherance to the 'rules'. It should teach a child that actions have consequences, and those consequences *can* be unpleasant, e.g., if you don't eat your broccoli, you can't have any ice cream, or if you dawdle too long at dinner, you'll be sent to bed.

However, when administering 'discipline' serves only to instill fear in the child, to break his/her will, to encourage complete submission, or simply to use the child as a whipping boy (physically, verbally OR psychologically)for one's own frustrations, that constitutes abuse. As does using physical violence or agression. There's a big difference between a slap on the hand or a swat on the butt, and being dragged across the floor.

The little angel is lucky she's got her grandma there to love her and comfort her at least. It is hard to know what to do when it's family... I hope your son can get help dealing with his anger in a less destructive way. You'll all be in my thoughts and prayers.

Willem,

Laws governing whether or not suspected abuse need to be reported covers doctors, hospitals, educators and the like. If I was still teaching or actively doing daycare, I would have a built in 'escape'. I would be forced by law to report. I don't have that crutch to fall back on.

As far as alternative care options, she has B and me. That is assuming that the state would not take her outright. That is always a possibility. And that is the precise reason why I hesitate to report it to the authorities.

I need to confront my son (when he finally shows up here to get his child). If I am not convinced of her immediate safey, I will call the authorities...I know I have no choice.

I knew when I posted. Just having a hard time coming to grips with a choice that isn't a choice.



Candy

One important thing to take into account. If you *don't* report it, and CPS finds out anyhow, eventually (i.e., through school or daycare or whatever) it is possible and even likely that they will decide you were protecting your son over the safety of the child, and won't let you be the ones to have temporary custody (i.e., be the foster parents).

On the other hand, it's entirely possible that you could report it, and that they could decide that they needed to be involved, but that it didn't need to involve removing her from anyone's custody -- that's how they often do things here when there's no "immediate life-threatening danger" issues. Do lots of case management type work, require anger management, parenting classes, provide resources for babysitting/respite care (if she has CP, is it severe enough that she's eligible for Medicaid-funded respite care? That's essentially state funded babysitting -- I've done that for some parents around here). It seems like a lot, but it ends up being cheaper for the state than putting a child in foster care.

If you need to chat about this more, I'm on Windows Messenger right now, B has the contact info.

Well, the authorities are now involved.

My son called me. I told him what he did crossed the line between discipline and abuse. He agreed and then told me it has happened before and it will happen again. Let me know the only way it wouldn't happen is if we took her. I suggested he get into anger management and let her stay with us as long as necessary. He told me to f*uck off.

I called the abuse hotline and went to voicemail.
Called the police. They were going to come out but called us back and said to bring her in to the station so they could take pictures. As we were getting ready to leave, son showed up and grabbed her. Called police back, they did a traffic stop and brought them to the station. He admitted that he only dragged her 10 feet!*!*!* He confirmed telling me it had happened before and would happen again, BUT he explained he meant discipline not abuse...I DO NOT think he knows the difference. Police asked us if we thought she was in danger and we said yes. Told them that son had a history of punching out doors when frustrated. They called DCFS (dept of family service)who will be contacting him and us within 24 hours. He was allowed to take her home.

When he grabbed her, he has informed us to stay out of their lives. So now she is without anyone to try to protect her. Grandparents do not have rights in this state.

So, did I make things better or worse? D*mned if I know.
If/since what I did was right, why do I feel bad????????

You feel bad because you love your granddaughter and you want that she should be loved and safe and happy and well-cared-for and protected, and you don't know if this is going to happen, and you don't know if your attempts to help her would work, and you don't know if the authorities will be a help or not! It appears to be a no-win situation, for your granddaughter, and for you as well!

You have every reason to feel bad because of the *situation* ... but not feel bad for anything that *you did* because the situation isn't and wasn't of your making. You've not done any harmful thing to your granddaughter.

I believe that you did the best thing you could have done for your granddaughter. Doing the right thing feels pretty horrible when you're chosing between bad and worse.

I hope and pray that the DCFS will see that the best possible thing for your granddaughter is to be with B and yourself, as you love her very very much, and understand her needs. If there is ANYTHING at all that I can do to help, let me know. I'll be here for you.

It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation, but I do think you did the right thing. Such a shame that grandparents have no rights in your state, that doesn't seem to make any sense.

Well, my son has called twice. The first time I was online so he left a message. Basically, until such time as we work things out, he has revoked all rights I have to see his daughter, get her from school, day care etc. This could take a few days, weeks, month whatever. I have blown things out of proportion and he will contact me when he feels we are ready to talk. He ends the message with I’ll be home all day, call me.

When we hadn’t called by this evening he called again. His ‘excuse’ was he had just woken up when we talked the first time and I should know not to have a conversation with him unless he had been up for at least two hours. He does not remember ever agreeing he said he knew it was abuse, that he had done it before and would do it again. Said I had blown everything out of proportion. Because I had involved the authorities, I had jeopardized his career and if he could not get a job in his profession, he could not support his daughter. He has a degree in psychology, will be going back for his masters, and plans on working as a school psychologist at the high school level-he currently works with high school aged boys who are at risk-he graduated with honors, for god’s sake!). He said I should know he would never hurt his daughter and that this was an isolated incident because he was out of control but it would not happen again. Claimed we wanted to raise her ourselves and thought he wasn’t doing it right.

Most of the time I think he is doing a wonderful job raising her. It is true that I disagree with many of the things he does. But that does not make him wrong, it is just a difference in parenting styles. Even though I don’t agree, I support what he does. However, this was stepping over the line of different parenting styles into abuse. He claims it wasn’t abuse because he lost his temper and didn’t mean it. He can not see a problem. He will not admit to needing help.

Right now we are in a hurry up and wait situation. Everything is on ‘hold’ until DCFS comes out and talks with both him and us.

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode….

(I know I did the right thing. I know I did the right thing. I know I did the right thing …. now why can’t I believe it?)

sigh>

I thought when you did a degree in psychology you got psychoanalysed to iron out any problems, sounds like he didn't listen to his. Do you have the facility for family counselling in a neutral environment. That way, maybe he really could see that you only had your granddaughters best interests at heart, and you could sort out visiting rights. Also, the facilitator would be a neutral person who hopefully would agree what constitutes abuse and doesn't with you.

Good luck

I think you only need to get psychoanalysed if you are going to get a degree in psychiatry.

We have been in and out of family counseling for years, using at least 4 counselers. He will only respond to a counseler who thinks he is right, and then only until confronted with something he doesn't agree to.

He admits to making a mistake. He says he knows what he did was excessive, but still claims it was not abuse. It was simply him loosing his temper. He still is not to blame.

That is the closest I have ever heard him come to admitting he might have been wrong.

I guess that is progress of a sort then

The guy needs a *peer*, Richenda. No-one listens to their parents, it's the law .

Well, I spoke with DCFS today. Worker said my story and son's matched (whatever that means). He still needs to speak with the officer (who will also agree to story)and they are checking with her school. No idea where it will go. But I assume they will drop it and consider it an isolated instance. Worker did let me know that it is hard being a single parent, especially a single parent of a handicapped child....sigh...as though I didn't know any of that. In any case, at least my son knows I will not tolerate any signs of abuse. Now we shall see what this does to our relationship.

Anyways I'm still interested in hearing what happens next.
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In the meantime, here are some thoughts of my own on discipline and abuse.
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If I have kids I will try and instill in them as much *good* discipline as possible because I think discipline is a great thing to have. Discipline is empowering. But it needs to be the right kind of discipline. What I am *not* going to do is to instill discipline through pain and fear, or through manipulation of the needs, desires and emotions of my children. Discipline done by such means I consider abuse. I only want this kind of discipline: discipline based on love, trust and respect. I want my kids to listen to me because they love, trust and respect me, not because they fear the punishment should they be disobedient, and also not because they need to obey me to get some gratification thereby. I also don't want to manipulate them into obeying me. I will from the outset work on creating a relationship of love, trust and respect between us, and the best way of doing this is by creating it as a thing that is mutual, reciprocal, in other words not just going out from me onto them, but from them onto me as well. The way I want to teach my children discipline is like this: by playing games. I will play lots and lots of games with my children starting even before they can talk and walk. Through game-playing the children will learn what rules are, and what formal systems are. They will learn that games involve rules and that for the sake of playing the game 'right' the rules have to be respected. In the context of the playing they will also get to know me as a person, and come to trust me, and also they will get to know themselves and their own abilities. Thus, through games, they will learn discipline, and trust. This way they will learn basic discipline long before it really becomes 'necessary' ... long before they enter any actual situations where discipline is called for. Also I will get to know every child's disciplinary abilities and not put them into situations where their discipline would get tested beyond its present limits.
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I will never want my children to be blindly obedient to me. I'll allow disobedience if the child has a good reason. I'll talk to them about such things, about why in certain circumstances they would not or did not obey me.
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The direction that I will want my children to develop towards would be this: self-discipline. The most important discipline is the discipline you decide upon yourself, and that you impose upon yourself. You do this for empowering yourself and others, to attain the ability do achieve the things that you value. I am certain that children could soon in their lives learn the value of this. I think if I have kids I'll be able to teach them this well before they reach adolescence, and having this lesson learnt I think they'll experience less problems than other adolescents. But I guess I'll have to wait and see until I have actual children of my own.
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One last thing ... I will never, ever involve food in the disciplining of my kids because I think that doing that leads to either unhealthy eating habits, or outright eating disorders. I will give my children treats whenever it is a good time to give them treats, whether they have done anything to deserve it or not. I will not give them treats as a reward for good behaviour. I'll also never deprive them of food as a punishment. I'll let them have the food that they need to have, and that's that.

Well...I finally have an outcome of sorts.

It has been 5 weeks of no contact with my son or granddaughter. Barton has called once and I have called twice - which includes me leaving a message that Barton was in the hospital.

Since Friday, every member of my family plus several friends have called mulitple time to let him know I was in the hospital. Finally, on Sunday night, my sister called the local police to check on them....her reasoning, how do we know that they aren't lying dead in the apartment (thank you very much - I never even considered that - MORE STRESS)

The police verified that Angel is with him and that she looks ok. Shawn has informed them that he want nothing more to do with ANY of the family.

Oh the other thing I hadn't mentioned before...until Angel was 3y2m, they lived with us and most recently I was watching her 4 to 5 days a week on a regular basis and sometime more. Knowing how much I was attached to Angel and how she felt about being with grandma and grandpa, Shawn has found a wonderful way to punish us and 'put me in my place' - just like his father used to do.

I just can not even begin to comprehend what he has told Angel or how she feels about the whole thing. She is the innocent pawn in the matter. Kind of reminiscent of what Shawn's dad did with him after our divorce. Told Shawn he no longer had a family...sigh.

So now that the 'excitement' of the weekend has worn off. I can now start to comprehend what this outcome will do to my life. But evenmore so,
WHAT WILL IT DO TO ANGEL??????????????????????????????????

You already said in that post it is not a single incident in that you know about the rabbit.

He blames the child!
He will continue to

May you have the strength you need.

Do the social services do follow ups?

It is so sad to have the result be isolation.
Seems the services need to help make sure there's not further isolation due to trying help. They are probably too overwhelmed to counsel on that too.

You have been under tremendous stress!