h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

At last a fairly sensible view on the whole thing. It is unlikely that autism would result from the MMR vaccine. A similar scare has occured recently in the USA as well linking vaccination in general to a rise in autism (February 2003, Editorial Scientific American) due to a mercury compound used as a preservative in the vaccines. This compound, the vaccine companies state, is well within safety limits. The press, particularly the D**ly M**l, doesn't help with its scare-mongering.

However, in my department at Reading University there's a feeling that the gut flora of infants may be involved with the development of autism.

Ultimately the causes of autism are too complex to point to just a single candidate. And it's worth underlining the fact the increase in autism was occuring before the use of the MMR vaccine. However, this rise does seem to correspond to a rise in antibiotic use. Is it possible that a multi-drug resitant pathogen in the gut could be playing a role in the development of autism?

I absolutely agree that the press shouldn't take part in scare-mongering. Unfortunately it does, so I tried to write a balanced entry. I've heard about the mercury compound, but didn't mention it in the entry as it's not directly linked to the MMR vaccine.

In the entry, I've already underlined the fact that the rise started *before* the introduction of the MMR vaccinations - "The rise in autism levels started before the MMR vaccine was widely introduced."

Myself, I don't see how the apparent rise in autism levels could be linked to a pathogen. I personally believe the 'rise' is due to better diagnosis of autism now than there has been at any other time.

Thanks for the comments
RhoMuNuQ

If anyone is interested, the Mercury containing compound is called thimerosal, and a list of articles related to this chemical--and information about many childhood inoculations--can be found on http://www.vaccinesafety.edu which is run by Johns Hopkins University.

Kudos to the author for a nicely balanced and well written article. Would you care to mention, for those who are interested in doing further research, what the separate inoculations are?

Hi

A person asked about thimerosal in the Peer Review thread for this entry and my reply is at <./>F111388?thread=241858&post=2883202#p2883202</.>.

I'm afraid I don't know offhand the names of the three separate vaccinations, but I will try to find out the names as soon as possible.

Thanks for the positive comments
RhoMuNuQ

It was simpler than I thought - they're just called the "measles", "mumps" and "rubella" vaccinations.

RhoMuNuQ

I found some additional information on the specific names and agents used in the U.S. MMR (and in Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccines) on a paper regarding MMR-II on Merck's site:

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

It looks like Merck is the only company producing these vaccines (all four) at least in the United States, so your argument in favor of the MMR gains additional weight from the fact that they are the same shots, just in combination.

That's a part of the argument for single vaccinations that I never understood - how giving the three vaccinations separately could be safer than giving them together.

RhoMuNuQ

How about overloading an immature immune system?

My son had this vaccine at 13 months.
He was diagnozed with Asperger's Syndrome at age 4, after many months of me going back and forward to doctors, health visitors, paediatrician, child psyhologist, anyone who would listen that there was something very wrong with my son.
He was a perfectly normal baby, with a score of 9.5 given by the midwife at birth.
I have a photo of him in his buggy, smiling at me on his first birthday.
A month later he had the MMR vaccine.
He has never smiled at a camera since.

In your entry you do not mention the very first introduction of the MMR vaccine which was withdrawn for safety reasons.
Why not?
The Department of Health is ill-placed to allay anxiety when it was responsible for introducing a strain of MMR whose safety it knew had been seriously questioned, only withdrawing it after THREE YEARS of flawed surveillance and resulting damage to a number of children.

The US Institute of Medicine says:
The evidence favours rejection of a causal relationship at the population level between MMR vaccine and ASD (autism spectrum disorders).
However, the committee notes that its conclusion does not exclude the possibility that MMR vaccine could contribute to ASD in a small number of children, because the epidemiological evidence lacks the precision to assess rare occurances of a response. In other words, although the link between MMR and autism could not be stood up in terms of the general population, it could be happening at an individual level.

I don't know if it was the MMR vaccine which damaged my son.
I only know, as his mother, that he wasn't born the way he is now.
*Something* affected him, if not the MMR, then what?

I'm one of the parents involved in the legal battle I can't talk about here.
But there's 2,000 of us.
Are we all wrong?

And the comment above about "one man's research" is wrong.
Dr Ken Aitken, a neuropsychologist and autism expert in Scotland, has already performed preliminary research that helps back up Andrew Wakefield's new 'booster' study. It shows that children who already had developmental problems get significantly worse after the booster MMR at 4 years. {I never took my son for his booster}

I'm also very surprised you negated to mention that the British Prime Minister has refused to say whether his own youngest son Leo had the MMR vaccine, and his sister-in-law Lauren Booth, refused to have her daughter immunized with it.

Some schools are refusing to accept un-immunized children.
Some GP's are dumping families who refuse to have their infants immunized with the MMR, to keep up their "100% take-up quota" - and qualify for bonuses.

You also neglected to mention that Japan withdrew the MMR vaccine and subsequently banned it, reverting back to single vaccines.

You also don't mention that the MMR is being fazed out - to make way for - wait for it - the MMRV. Did you know that?

Measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox.

Way to go.

Let's cram as many as we can in.

Oh and all these so-called studies on the safety of the MMR - they're carried out by people on the payroll of the vaccine manufacturers.

Just by the way, I'm not an "anti-vaccine campaigner" - all my older children had their jabs and I had the rubella jab after carrying my first daughter unprotected against rubella.
None of the parents I've spoken to is anti-vaccine.
We just want single jabs to be made available.

AGB, I'm sorry if my writing this hurt your feelings all I can say is I'm sorry. I had been considering writing about this for some time but I had been put off because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. I really didn't. The essay is based on my research.. (I read all the papers concerned for a talk at university)

I will just answer your points.

The reason Japan stopped using the triple vaccine was because of a problem with the local mumps vaccine, which was a different strain to that used in the uk, not because of any link with autism.

The majoriy of GPs at the BMA Gps comminte voted that they wished to end the quota system becuase it means parents don't take there advice about the MMR Vaccine.

As for overloading an immature immune system, babies are immunsed against, polio, diptheria, whooping cough when they are 8 weeks old. Surely that is as likley to overload an immune system.

I'm not an expert on this, I'm only a student who did the reaserch, (not all of the pro mmr research was done by people who are in the pockets of vaccine companies, I admite some of it was)


I do have every sympathy for your situation and I don't want to hurt you by publishing this.


T

I have every sympathy for your sitution, I can't imagine how awful it must be.

Thank you for answering my points.

Don't worry about me, I'm pretty tough.

It's just that this is *so* touchy a subject, a raw nerve doesn't adequately describe it....

Not only do I have to cope with a child {and almost-adult} with Aspergers, but I also mourn for the son that might have been.

By the way, Tabitca's daughter also had a very bad reaction to the MMR vaccine and she has health problems, I've invited her to this thread if you don't mind.

I'm glad your tough, I spent ages wondering whether or not to write this because I was aware of your situation.. I'm also very loath to write down my opinions because I don't know how I'd manage to cope in your situation.. I really don't..

My daughter contacted pneumonia after the MMR vaccine..I was told it was safe even though she has asthma. she now has permanently damaged lungs and brittle asthma(much more dangerous).I read a few months after this in the Guardian Newspaper that chest infections have been listed as a side effect of MMR and children with certain allergies shouldn't have the triple vaccine. Too late for my daughter...it runied her childhood and will dominate her choices in adult life. she was also diagnosed with ADHD.

A Ps to this she wasn't allowed to have the whooping cough vaccine yet the MMr was supposed to be ok.

Hi,

I'm glad you've come to this thread! it helps to have both sides.. The problem with things like this is that acedotcal evidence isn't eveidence.

As my medline link as gone down at the moment I'm not getting into an arguement without the eveidence to back me up...(but on monday if I had the time)

I should tell you that i am medically qualified and a psychologist..No medicine or vaccine is immune from side effects. How individuals react to them is different.My daughter almost died twice after the vaccination and had to be air lifted to hospital.

Great, I really really hope that I didn't come across as patronising I tried really hard not to, and I should emphaise that I don't know that much about it!

"children with certain allergies shouldn't have the triple vaccine."

Not something that I'd ever been told - what are these allergies?

Here I stand, with an child who never had the MMR, and sometimes I want to cry I am so thankful that I made the decision not to let him have it. My son at that age had asthma (now assumed to have grown out of it as he hasn't had an attack for 5 years), undiagnosed ADHD (although I knew there was something 'different' about him), and a dairy allergy (allergy - *not* intolerance). Now he has eczema. And while there is no proof, the danger that this vaccine might cause my son more problems, or might worsen the ones that he has, means that I will never let him have this vaccine while he is in my care.

Archangel Galaxy Babe,

> How about overloading an immature immune system?

A person's immune system is typically fighting at least fifty - typically hundreds - of different infections at any one time. I cannot see how the addition of three or four specifically-attenuated viruses could 'overload' a child's immune system.

> However, the committee notes that its conclusion does not exclude the possibility that MMR vaccine could contribute to ASD in a small number of children

Based on all available evidence at present - notably the study of 537,303 children in Denmark over a period of seven years where no statistically-significant difference in the rate of autism between the group of children who were vaccinated and the group of children who were not - I do not believe that there is a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. However, I may be wrong - a small number of people suffer side effects of the vaccination. If the MMR vaccine was not given, how many children would have died of measles who would otherwise have lived? In my opinion, doing what is best for the majority of children is right.

> I'm one of the parents involved in the legal battle I can't talk about here. But there's 2,000 of us.

The number of people who share a belief is no indicator as to the truth of the belief. Consider the almost universal belief in the 16th Century that the sun orbitted the Earth. As I wrote in a footnote in the article, "Science by its nature is based on a theory being created to explain the available evidence, new evidence being found that isn't explained by the theory and a better theory being established."

> It shows that children who already had developmental problems get significantly worse after the booster MMR at 4 years.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with this study. How many children were involved? Was there a control: it may be the case that developmental problems become worse after the age of four years regardless of whether the MMR vaccine is given.

> I'm also very surprised you negated to mention that the British Prime Minister has refused to say whether his own youngest son Leo had the MMR vaccine, and his sister-in-law Lauren Booth, refused to have her daughter immunized with it.

A parent's personal decision on whether or not their child should be vaccinated is, in my opinion, irrelevant. In this age science is based on statistics and reliable statistics are quoted extensively in the article. Objective mathematical facts are true evidence; anectodes are not.

> Oh and all these so-called studies on the safety of the MMR - they're carried out by people on the payroll of the vaccine manufacturers.

My views differ - I believe that the studies were carried out independently of any vaccine manufacturer.

> We just want single jabs to be made available.

As mentioned in the entry, I believe that this would have a deleterious effect on the majority of children and I it is best to do what will benefit the largest possible number of people.

===

Mina,

My own views differ, but I respect your decision. There has certainly been much misleading information given about the vaccine.

===

RhoMuNuQ

RhoMuNuQ - to comment on something that you mentioned to AGB:

"< How about overloading an immature immune system? >

A person's immune system is typically fighting at least fifty - typically hundreds - of different infections at any one time. I cannot see how the addition of three or four specifically-attenuated viruses could 'overload' a child's immune system."


Surely injecting 'specifically-attenuated viruses' directly into the body is much more capable of 'overloading' a child's immune system than would breathing in the random bacteria and viruses floating around, as at least then the body's natural defence mechanisms would come into play?