h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was wondering how about the Koran's advice "do not to make friends with infidels" and if it's even possible for Muslims to overcome this barrier and establish normal friendly relationships with the rest of mankind. I would interested in a few Muslim comments and observations on this aspect.
As an infidel I believe that God has no ego and therefore doesn't want or need me to prostrate myself before him 5 times a day. I believe that for God it is enough that I follow the Golden Rule. What do Muslims think about that for a philosophy?
The Golden Rule, by the way, is "ut tibi sic alis" - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - or in modern language - "treat others as you would like to be treated yourself".
Anybody out there would like to respond to my last 3 postings since Abid Qasim is very busy.

Lucky,
I think that's a fantastic philosophy. Simple and effective. Not sure how it would apply to a sado-masochist though!

I also like the Wiccan philosophy - "An ye do no harm, do as ye will." A completely tolerant philosophy.

Gaggle, It was our old school motto. We had it on our blazer badge.
I thought I'd post the occassional poetic quote from the Penguin Koran whilst awaiting those replies from our Muslim friends.
"But the true servants of God shall be well provided for, feasting on fruit, and honoured in the gardens of delight. Reclining face to face upon soft couches, they shall be served with a goblet filled at a gushing fountain, white, and delicious to those who drink it. It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them. They shall sit with bashful dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches."

Today's quotable quote from the Penguin Koran:
"Is this not a better welcome than the Zaqqum tree? We have made this tree a scourge for the unjust. It grows in the nethermost part of Hell, bearing fruit like devils' heads: on it they shall feed, and with it they shall cram their bellies, together with draughts of scalding water. Then to Hell shall they return."

I will quote from one or two other holy books whilst awaiting the answers. I wouldn't like to be accused of favouritism.

The Bible: If anyone worship the beast or his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulphur.

The Bhagavata: My mind was led astray by this body - which is similar to a pot or a wall - and I did not care about you. Surrounded by chariots, horses, foot-soldiers and generals, I roamed the earth thinking: "I am a god amongst men." I was drunk with conceit.

Oh you are awful, but I like you!

mmmm....

probably busy



back to the Tao

After trainee priest

Vincent Van Gogh was sacked by the church

for giving too much money to the poor ...

he took up painting.

"Who can wait until the mud settles?" Tao

I think it's post 57 onwards that we're awaiting replies for

an you can keep on waiting, my hours changed I am doing a load of 12 hours shifs over night which does not give me time to write a responce to all your posts.

what a polite fellow

Thanks a lot for updating us, Abid. Much appreciated. Don't be working too hard!

Anyone else out there care to help with the research? You can pick up the thread at post 57.

I wanted to ask Abid about the current attacks on the mosques.

On television a spokesman for one group of Muslims said that 168 mosques belonging to another group of Muslims had been attacked and that many hundreds of innocent Muslims had been murdered. I can understand (or at least I think I can understand) why Muslims are destroying Christian churches in Africa and Asia but I cannot understand why they are destroying their own mosques. It seems such a silly thing to do.

Whilst patiently waiting for Abid to get a day off from his 12 hour shifts I will consult the universal wisdom of the I-Ching as to the cause of all this Muslim unrest.

Ok I got some spare time at the moment at work so though t I would try and go through some of your points.

Starting with post 57.

1) If I am a Christian, a Hindu or a Jew how does Islam perceive me? Am I some kind of heathen or unclean person?

well Islamically speaking it depends. For example Christians and JEws are seen to be the followers of the book, that being the Torah and the Bible. Muslims believe that all religions came from one source and message, i.e. worship God and to pray and do good deeds etc. Over timethough these messages to mankind where corrupeted of lost. Some times on purpose by man, or some times by accident.

chistians and Jews are sen to be following the better path in terms of other religions as it has been around lss time and suffered less change, i.e. idol worship is not allowed nor the worship of more than one God.

So be blunt about it Muslims view other faiths to be folowing the same message as they but one that has been changed and altered over time. Jews and christians follow theoriginal message more closely than Hindus and other such religions.

But before faith comes in to the equation Muslims are taught that all people are humans and should be treated as such. Kind of ironic then that these days Muslims seem to havethe least respect for life, but this is through culture not Islam.

2) Same question - if I have absolutely no religion, say I'm an agnostic or an atheist?

Same applies, except that you have decided not to follow any thing. Still human though and should be treated as such.

3) Same question - if I have my own religion - my own personal one-to-one realationship with my creator - or a kind of Buddhism perhaps?

see above, with the exception that it would be viewed that you do not have a religion, instead you would be viewed as a spiritual person who has no religion, i.e. like an agnostic.

4) How do Muslims in general perceive "western people" (for lack of a better word). Do they see them to be decadent and evil, or merely misguided, or intelligent and well-educated, or greedy and uncharitable? Or perhaps in another way?

Hmmm I can't answer this one as I am a western person. But from my exeriences I would say that most people see you as ignorant on Islam. some people see threats at every corner, as if all western people are out to destroy Islam. Think about the views of Islam in the west and reverse it and you get the idea. the same sort of steryeoype and lazy thinkng views mixed with uncertainity and ignorance.

5) There's perception "in the west" (again for lack of a better word) that Islam sees it's goal as "taking over the religious world". Is there anything in the Koran that would lend support to this perception?

I think there is a perception that Islam is trying to take over the world in general lol. Islam is a misionary religion but you are not allowed to force or coerce etc. You are told to invite people to the way of your lord with beautifull speech and reasoning.

But when was the last time you had a Muslim on your door trying to convery you?

6) I've heard that a non-Muslim is not allowed to go to Mecca or Medina.
Is this true?

Not entirelly. Non Muslims are allowed to visit Mecca and Medina. Non Muslims are only not allowed in to the actual Mosque at Mecca, thats becasue their is a requirement to enter. That requirement is that any one who enters has said the shahada and so is a Muslim.
a bit like how you used to have to do the pledge of alliegence when becoming an american citizen.

7) How do you see the role of Lawrence of Arabia? Is he mentioned in Muslim history books for instance?

No idea I am afraid have not really read on that time period or area.

8)When high-profile Muslims are calling for Israel to be wiped off the map and so on why aren't other high-profile Muslims standing up and saying this is against what's written in the Koran regarding the land of Israel?

for several reasons. Firstly most muslims doe not like drawing attention to them selves as noone really listens to what they say and instead jump down their throats with accutaions etc on other issues.

Secondly a few people do speek out but the media never says anything about them. take a look at some Muslim magazines like Q news and you will find plenty of high up Muslims dishoning such things.

Thirdly many Muslim will not speek out on such things because of the way the state of isreal gets away with trating the Palestinians as nothing. For example Isreal has broen over 60 UN security council resolutions, yet Iraq had broken 17 when we went to war with it.

Which aquits back to the opinion of the west as the Un and western world politics is seen as hypocritical and biased.

Hope that helps.

9) Is it rue that Muslim women are not allowed to pray in the mosque when they are having their monthly period - because they are deemed to be unclean?

Muslim women are exempt from praying when on their period. They do not have to attend mosque in any case as women are allowed to choose to pray at home or at mosque, and if on ther monthly period do not have to pray for several reasons.

Muslim women are not seen as if they are dirty or unclean, but rather they are in a temporary state of unpurity. A Muslim has to be clean to pray in a spiritual way, not physically. Though it is best to be physically clean, thats why Muslims wash their hands feet and face before prayers, If a Muslim is bleeding they are seen to be in a state of non purity and are exempt from praying untill they have stopped bleeding. This includes menustration. but for cuts etc you would have to make up your prayers at a latter date but women on theur monthly cycle do not have to make up for lost prayers as their menstrual cycle is natural and part of what a women is, so when on her monthyl cycle she is seen to havefulfilled all her prayers even thoughing she has not done any.

The other reasons why Muslim women are not allowed to pray when on their menstrual cycle is that some women get tired out by it all and muslim praying is physical as well as spiritual, and becasue of the prostrating etc it would be uncomfortable for a women to pray in that condition and so is exempted from the duty of prayer.

It in no way implies that women are dirty or it is their nature to be impure. rather it is just seen as making a womens duties easier when she might notbe felling 100 percent.


10) Is it true that you have to be a Muslim to go to Heaven (Paradise?)

No, a practicing Muslim who does his best to do Good and does his best to avoid evil is quaranteed paradies, eveyone else will not be. Unless they have had no contact or heard of Islam. End of the day only God knows who will go to paradise no one lse, and noone can say one person is or is not going to paradise no matter what that person has done.

11) Would a man like Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who tried to bring peace between Hundus and Muslims be disqalified from entering Paradise because he is not a Muslim?

See above. I would like to think he would be, but rether he is or not is not for me to say.

Thanks Abid for taking the trouble to reply and for your detailed responses. They were worth waiting for.
What concerns people in "the west" I guess is the almost daily sight of wild-eyed fanatics with Koran in one hand and Kalshnikov in the other.
Politicians feed off these kind of images. Every suicide bombing is merely more votes for Bush. It's self-defeating.
Another way must be found. The way demonstrated by Gandhi I would suggest.

Well that would be a start, problem is most people in those clips are uneducated (in Islam at least) and hot heads.

Look what happened to Ghandi, same sort of thing would happen. a move to build bridges to the west would make al Qaeda say they are supporting the kufr and should be treated as such, and blow said people up like they do everyone else. For terrorists its a case of our views are right and if you disagree we will kill you, specially if we can't defeat your arguments.

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the same is true for the east, cept its soldiers killing cinvilians, or people dying from sanctuans etc. Media has a lot to answer for as they only really like to concentrate on the negatives and never the positives. Eastern media is just as spun as western media, just for the other way aroung pro west becomes pro east.

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The actual verse is not saying you can not have friends who are non muslim. The verses basically tell you that the best friends are Muslim and that of those who are not Muslim you have to watch out as some may try to befriedn you just to cause you harm. For example me being white makes it nearly impossible for me to get married, as their have been many cases of white people pretending to be Muslim to bed a good looking Muslim girl.

In other words its just saying be carefull who you have as your friends and who you trust. Muslims are allowed to be friends with non Muslim people. But we must stick to the morals and principles of Islam when you do so, i.e. no drinking alcohol, sex before marriage etc.

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Muslims would see that you are mostly right but slightly wrong. For a Muslim prayer is a very important part of their faith. The difference between belief and disbelief to a Muslim is prayer. Muslims do not pray for Gods sake, God as you rightly put, does not need our prayers, infact God does not need anything, instead for Muslims pray is a way of getting closer to God on a spiritual level and away of directly communicating to God. An no he does not reply lol.


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A very Good rule and one that people should follow. Their is no harm in following such a rule. But that on its own for a Muslim does not qualify you as a Muslim, just someone who has an 'Islamic outlook' in the area of kindness to others.

Abid, I have no religious axe to grind and I am an open channel or conduit for the I-Ching.
A question was written down in the following exact terms:
"What is the answer to the problems besetting the Muslim peoples?"
The answer was arrived at using the coin method and was found in Hexagram 49.
There was one moving line, a feminine passive (or Yin) in the fifth place up. Each Hexagram in the I-Ching has a name.
The title of Hexagram 49, a symbol of water and fire, is 'Revolution'.
Interpretation:
The moving line says "the great man accomplishes the change like a tiger" which means that he accomplishes the change "in a brilliant and civilised manner". The tiger symbol has nothing to do with ferocity.
The introductory text to Hexagram 49 (Revolution) states "not before its completion will men have faith in it. Determination in a righteous course brings reward; regret vanishes."
Commentary: Water and fire extinguish each other; such is the nature of revolution. A civilized and enlightened attitude brings joy. The timely application of this Hexagram is of vast importance.
THIS IS THE ADVICE OF THE BOOK OF CHANGES - THE I CHING (translation by John Blofeld).