A Conversation for Islam - an Introduction

Oppression of women and Islam

Post 21


I can't help but feel that the attitude I described in my editorial a few postings back is, in fact, being displayed in the above post. My editorial observation did not, as I think it is very clear to anyone who read it, "ignore" the issues that Western women deal with by pointing solely at the worse examples that occur in the Middle East. Anyone who would make such a claim is simply propagandizing and I find such efforts obnoxious and insidious. As I stated above, there are indeed struggles for Western women. The struggles of the typical Middle Eastern woman, by honest comparison, are simply worse. Neither should be ignored, but they simply cannot be equated as the same thing. One is worse. Why (and this is not a rhetorical question-- I really want to know) is the idea so unpalatable that one culture's offense is worse than another's?

Oppression of women and Islam

Post 22

badger party tony party green party

"Look at her she's asking for it." smiley - book

What a loaded statement that is. Ive heard women use it about other women.

Thing is with deifferent women *it* is different things, randing from a line of men outside a bedroom to succesively have sex wtih her to just a bit of confidence boostibg considerate attention though in bot the cases the dress and attitude involved would not have revealed much difference.

So being leered at is not always oppresion of women.

I admire the way you are considerate and try to focus on other things than womens appearance and dress, but it is not the be all and end all of this matter.

As I tried to make clear earlier attractiveness and preceived sexual availability is not a determining factor in the actual crime rape.

"I agree that not all rapists are that way because of just the way women dress. Yet there are some who do do it for those reasons. But not as many as the normal ones.smiley - book

No woman is making herself more likely to be raped by her dress. If a man wants to do it he will use force to try and get what he wants regard;ess of dress. Nothing in dress or demeanour mitigates the taking of someone elses liberty to choose.

If the bank vault is left open it is no invitation or encouragement to theft.

So in the terrible circumstances you describe in your post the parents of that woman were accessory to her rape by putting her in a position that applies pressure for her to have sex with a partner not of her choice.

georgezilla I have re-read your posts and though I find nothing in attitude or fact to disagree with I do not understand your wish to place such emphasis on Islam.

as Adib has pointed out Islam is not so much at fault as those that turn the religion into something that is more cultural preferance anything. Especially when I still see Sikhs, Hindus and some other sects which have been brought to the UK from the Indian sub-continent

Thankfully western culture has on the whole moved on from arranged mrriages but we are still not some how morally head and shoulders above Islam. This is largely because there are still so many subtle ways that go unnoticed by those to close to easily see the wood from the trees.

I have worked in womens refuges and know women who have fled for their lives from their homes. I knew a girl my age (back then) killed because she was a woman. The killer was never caught. Probably one of her clients, but we do not make so much fuss over the way our culture treats women. We point at the burkha and say "oppression". Yet where is the highlighting of the fact that in my country of the on avrage two women killed per week nearly every one of them is killed by her male partner or ex. There is no moral hig ground to be taken when women are brought up to be so afraid and meek that on average they suffer on average 33 domestic assaults before they feel they have the courage or are justified in turning to the police for help.

Im not trying to play down anything that happens anywhere but the "who is worse to women" argument is futile and pales in insignificance next to the "what can each of us do about it question"?

You dont need to look abroad or point the finger elsewhere unless we as a culture are trying to hide our own short comings behind a soke screen of others' wrong doing. I doubt this is what you *want* to do but by giving further airings to such arguments you are ineffect contributing to just that.

one love smiley - rainbow

Oppression of women and Islam

Post 23


Yeah, you also find women who look down on other women for the way they dress and act sexually. I would say it does take a lot more than it does in Islamic countries though, and it usually doesn't turn into anything physical.

I think people never seem to be able to seperate arranged marriage and forced marriage. A forced marriage is wrong, but I don't see what is so wrong with an arranged marriage. Both parties could well be very happy with it. The woman gets someone to bring home the bacon, the husband gets someone to cook the bacon he brings home. And perhaps they will end up loving each other.

Oppression of women and Islam

Post 24

badger party tony party green party

Thankyour for pointing out the distinction I failed to make Xan.

On the other subject when I see the amount of bullying that goes on in schools and in the work place to men and women who dont fit because of dress, skin colour accent, wealth, accent religion or whatever.... Where the abuse can be both pysical and verbal, it sort of makes me think that the only difference is that in the west when the mob gets on to an *outsider* they just usually arentas organised and dont claim religious justification.

one love

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