h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I swear my sister made me believe that I was adopted. I believed this for about four years.

So when a child asks this, simply say 'What has that sister of yours been telling you now?' if the scenario applies

Your idea of what to respond only applies if the child is in fact NOT adopted. I am adopted, and frankly I think I would have been hurt if I was told I was not.

I have studied psychology. My suggestion is to answer honestly. "Your parents could not look after you. Your mother had no money to feed you" etc... but for every negative thing you say, you need to say 3-5 positive things because negatives tend to be scarring and the ratio to even it out is like 1 to 5. So "Your mother couldn't look after you. But she did love you and that's why you live here. She wanted to make sure you were fed and taken care of. We love you very much and we are glad you mother let use look after you" etc..

Also I think it's important that if the child is adopted, and you have this chat with them, afterwards you should allow them to not call you mother or father, but Mr... or Dorothy or whatever. This may be hurtful to you (because you probably feel this child is yours), but it is worse of you to force them to call you mother/father. They have developing mind and only a small understanding. They may and probably will grow out of it and start calling you mother/father again.

You're right, it only does apply if you aren't

My little sister grew up knowing that she was adopted, just as she knew that it didn't make her any less than any other member of the family. Because she's always known, she's always accepted it- to her, being adopted is not an issue, it's just part of what she is, as obvious and as normal as her name or hair colour.

She was adopted as an infant, though, and our parents are the only ones she's ever known. It's probably harder if the kid has memories of a time before adoption, but I don't really have much knowledge in that matter.

my sister used to tell people she had *two mothers and *two fathers. got a little awkward in the society we lived in, but heck, i like her attitude.

~baRuk

Hallo Shrodinger's Cat Flap! I love the Homegrowns' idea that if you've known you're adopted from day one and you've been adopted before you have a knowledge or memory of the natural parents, then it's probably OK... firstly, I'm really happy for your sister that she doesn't feel being adopted is an issue - you obviously had nice supportive and secure making parents. For me, no matter how I look at it, being adopted IS an issue - and it's one of the few concepts in my life I cannot answer satisfactorilly for myself - so I'll throw it open to the community to chew on a bit....

OK, I was adopted at age 6wks, two days before Christmas Day in 1957
My adoptive parents were... well.... vetted by the C of E Society I was adopted through, but I think, in the late 50s psycology hadn't been invented. Or it wasn't considered very important. What was important was that you "Looked like one of your parents" - and in my case, I favoured my father in appearance - you were physically matched up rather than the pscological profile of both famillies taken into account, is the point I'm trying to make. (I'm sure there's an h in psycological, somewhere, but what the hell, I'm on a roll, here)
Anyway, to cut a long story short, it was like a familly of rotweillers trying to bring up a feral cat - it did not work. I was beaten, bullied, abused both mentally and sexually and the first 20 odd years of my life were close to a living hell. The next 10 years weren't too bad, and the last 15 have been bloody great, so there is hope for all victims" - the fact I WAS beaten, abused.. etc, was not becasue I was adopted, simply because that was the way my familly was - they didn't know any better, and the brutality was just "normal to them. It's taken a great deal of observation and careful experimentation to realise that there are a lot of civilised people out there, who are not weak and useless simply becasue they are gently spoken and thoughtful.

Now, at age 30, I finally traced my natural mother. I had been given the usual story that "Your mum couldn't afford to feed you and loved you so much she gave you to us to look after" (which never made sense, especially after I'd been forcefed that particular time...) and the story I had been given - via the adoption society was that my natural mother's finance had been killed in an RTA before he could make an honest woman of her. So I had in my mind a sort of glamourised picture of a sad but brave little waif, being pleased to see me.

Welcome reality!

My natural mother is a huge gross mountain of a woman, with a mouthful of cavied teeth and a voice like a bittern - she's the sort you'd see in the snug in a bar, slightly the worse for wear yelling "@Ello Darrlin'" to anyone who'd buy her a port and lemon.
This - despite the fact that she wasn't the fairy tale princess I'd have hoped for, I could cope with - although I did think in passing she could have at least gone to a dentist (yes, I know, displacement activity!) What I could not deal with was that I had 3 half siblings - an older sister by 14mth, who WAS the child of her dead finace - a younger brother, and a much younger sister, all of whom she'd kept. And she couldn't keep track of the stories she told of my father - one week he was the love of her life, the next a bastard supreme, the next a Harley Street Surgeon and the next a raod sweeper. So I never did get to the bottom of who he was, possibly because in every senario she was "Well... a bit pissed like" so dad could have been any of theses blokes! Even that I could cope with,
because, well, it is now and I am here, and I have been quite capeable of starting my own dynasty - every familly has to start somewhere, why SHOULDN't I begin my own!

No, what my quandry is this: I am against abortion - I'd never stop anyone having one, but to utilise abortion purely as a lax form of birth control is, I feel morally wrong. May we take that as a "given",please? Thankyou.

However, I also feel, given the circumstances of my adoption, that adoption generally speaking, is equally morally indefensible - it's a cop out for the natural mother, and a lottery as to who brings up the unwanted child. In my opinion it is an unspeakably cruel thing to do to a child - I was lucky enough to be a very strong charactor, and thank God - I have always had a strong sense of self - I knew I wasn't like the adoptive parents, and I didn't want to BE like them, either, but even after 45 years, it still hurts unbearably that I have never felt I have had the love of any parent, and the feeling - I assume, anyway, of warmth, security, and "belonging" that you homegrowns appear to have - perhaps you arn't aware of how... different you may feel to me. Being alone, being "apart" is the norm for me, and it is only since I have had my own children that I have begun to realise that "mother" CAN be a lovable and positively important person in a kid's life. I am learning to feel secure that my kids love me - which is quite a humbling experience.

My question is this - given the (rather long winded) story of my birth and life circumsatnces - what would have been better - abortion or adoption? Well, adoption, obvioulsy, or I wouldn't be here to advocat or even consider abortion - but in the wee small hours of the dark nights, I do some times wonder...

What do you think?

Oh, yes PS.

I too, used the 2 mothers, 2 fathers and lots and lots of nan and grandads trip, too - it's great fun playing that game - and, I regret to say, if your parents were a bit touchy about being infertile a great way of stopping them bullying you in public!
(I never claimed I was a NICE kid, just a survivor!)

i think i can understand what yu've been through. at no point of time was it easy; not for my parents, not for my sister, heck not for me!

about adopt/abort. that *is quite a question. i am aginst abortion in principle, but yes. sometimes i wonder... in the deepest of hearts, i wish i wasn't born. now i am here, i try to make the best of it, but i would have preferred not being born.

about wishing you're parents were someone else, i think we've all (most) been through that, adopted or not. i love my parents, and they us, but again, sometimes...i just wish things were different.

maybe thats a part of being human. seeing imperfection and striving to change that in any way we can. not that any one of us will ever be a perfect person or a perfect parent, but it *is the trying that makes the difference.

like sharks...if they don't swim they drown.

~baRuk

I'm a little older than you (2 years) and my family chose the "farm out to another member of the family" route. In this case a sister who became in-fertile following problems during child-birth.

I was fortunate to be loved, and materially cared for - emotionally is another story, though to be honest it wasn't until I was married and a parent that I began to see how much was missing within me.

As you found out natural parents are no more guaranteed than adoptive ones, and there's the rub - at least you and I have got being adopted as an excuse.

It's a bit different here in south east Asia. There are some women here living in conditions you could not imagine in the west, who can neither afford to bring kids up nor want to give them the same life that they have led. Birth control education isn't brilliant, legal abortions are too expensive, in the places where they ARE legal. Adoption agencies, on the other hand, are well organised and give the kids a chance of a decent life. I think the attitude is differnt here/now, too. My sister is brown-skinned with black hair, I am pale and blonde, and- so what? she's my sister.

Yes, I see your point - and love the idea to bits - that is how it "SHOULD" be... and as I've said. it's great to hear a happy side to the adoption 'argument'. Being very blinkered, it didn't occur to me the "east" would see it so differently from the "west" but of course, we do see things differently because of our different cultures - I must admit, I read avidly Eastern Philosophy and say "Yeah, I agree with that" and then go on my blithe blinkered Western thought set until I pull myself up short and say "Oy! Hang on a minute" or I get a gentle reminder like the one above - for which thanks S.Catflap! I may well be mistaken, but having heard the (much nicer and more well balanced) view of the East would I be right in thinking there is a decided stigma in Britain at least regarding adoptees and adoptors? I always got the impression as a child that anyone who adopted had to be A) Slightly pitied because they couldn't create their own children and B)admired but slightly
despised for bringing up something that the original mother didn't want (ie, What's wrong with the kid that the proper mother didn't want it?) That was the way it felt to me as a kid, and I certainly never got told anything different... somehow - in my familly at least - the whole area had a shroud of shame and ambarrassment.

Just a thought, anyway.

I'm so sorry to read some of your experiences! I'm coming at this question from a very different view-point - I'm 'homegrown' (thanks for the descriptor) but married to a very happily-bred man who was adopted at birth. Through my life my parents and I offered a home to foster-children - in other words, the people who had NOT been shipped out to adoptive families, but had for various unhappy reasons been made unwelcome in their own homes OR had been separated from their families by the Social Services.

Judging just by this thread my husband is very lucky to have been adopted into a loving supportive family. He and his sister (also adopted from birth) were told from the start that his parents (and he NEVER plays the "two sets of parents" game) adopted him. He was also told that they love him, support him, etc, and he was given all the necessary groundwork to make him a strong and confident member of society. The strength they gave him has made him determined not to seek out his blood-relatives - he would see that as a complete betrayal of the people who nurtured him.

All of which (sorry to have beaten around the bush) suggests to me that it isn't the fact of adoption that has hurt people on this thread; it's more to do with how parts of society are failing to bring up the next generation with love and support.

One other thing: I refuse to stand up and be counted as one of those who views adopters as "A) Slightly pitied because they couldn't create their own children and B)admired but slightly
despised for bringing up something that the original mother didn't want". I honour his parents for doing something like that: yes, I'll admire them, but I won't pity or despise them. It took me ages to conceive (possibly too much information) and due to his/our positive experiences of family (natural, adopted, and fostered) we were quite prepared to travel the route of adoption. It would have been difficult, would have taken time, and possibly heart-ache, but it would have been worth it.

Oh, dear, I started with a clear message but I think it's become somewhat cloudy. Beg pardon, I was awake Way Too Early again, so I don't have many brain cells left.

x x Baby-Driven

Eek! Talk about being tired - I've just reread my post and realised quite how often I wrote "love & support". Although they're important concepts, I don't usually feel the need to repeat myself without variation - please blame the lack of brain-cells!

Also, I realise that what I wrote may have been provocative and even upsetting - I really didn't mean to upset anyone by what I wrote, and apologise.

I'm going back to bed now, but sorry again for being unclear and/or distressing (if I was).

x x Driver

Hardly provocative, Driver, and CERTAINLY not upsetting, so fuss not!
I got a bit insecure when you described your husband as "strong and confident" because the insecure cells leapt to my defence and said "She thinks I'm not!!!" but then Mr.Perspective Braincell
got it in proportion for me... as I've said. adoption - for me, and for quite a few of the lost souls I've spoken with about it - was an appaulingly negative experience, that - by the grace of whatever you like to believe in - I've not only survived, but have grown because of (Lousy grammer, but you get the gist) The bad image I described was certainly what I picked up from my familly and the surounding neighbours, but ... well, call it ill educated ociety or what you will, that was the way it felt and I've takn years to get as far as the "I'm good enough" stage, let alone the belief that "I'm loveable"
- but I'm strong (if not naturally confident -I've learnt that over the years) enough to accept that concept, alien as it truely feels.

I dn't know if I could ever admire or honour anyone for taking in a waif - conditioning runs very deep, alas - but it's a wonderful goal to aim for.

Thankyou most sincerely for offering me a totally different perspective on the adoption question - it helps me think about "stuff" far more in perspective and less one sidedly

Situations change with age, I was christened in a little village church, out of town so that it wouldn't get publicized - my natural mother was divorced you see, and that was a bad enough stigma.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I suffered due to adoption, my parents did their best, they just were not particularly well equipped for someone like me.

Witchone - I also have a lack of security / self-esteem. This has been a huge social disability for me, which I have had to fight, like you, to overcome. I understand what you've written, but I wanted you to know you're not alone in the "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" stakes!

*I've takn years to get as far as the "I'm good enough" stage, let alone the belief that "I'm loveable"* - I can't imagine that you're not loveable - with the family you mentioned on your USpace (is there a *nosey* smiley?), you must be the very centre of their young existances!

Thanks for understanding what I'd written, despite the early hour and the confused verbosity, and if I were you I'd hug that Mr Perspective Braincell of yours, and give him a promotion!

McKay TD - It's very hard growing up in the best of situations. Whether you suffered, felt unwelcomed, or just 'out of place', you seem to have a real understanding of your parents' points of view too.

x x Driver

Baby Driver - You ARE loveable.

It took a psychologist to trick me into seeing it, but all my kicking and unreasonableness were my way of dealing with being loved.

My twisted logic went thus - I am not lovable - therefore this person is being nice to me for an ulterior motive, therefore I am entitled to behave unreasonably because they are only using me.

It was only when I began to believe there was something lovable about myself that I was able to deal with the love of my wife and children. To believe that they didn't despise me when I screwed up, or failed. Indeed that most of my failures they didn't even see.

Love yourself - its important.

Oops Mr McKay - you seem to have got the wrong end of my posting! Although I thank you for the compliment, my original quotation was taken from Witchone's post a bit up the page! Serve me right, I think, for not making that clearer.

It took me a long while to realise my own self-worth, too (and sometimes I lose grasp of that concept) but I believe it for the most part.

Funnily or unamusingly enough, I had no logic as twisted as your own. I was a very believing and gullible individual, ready to be kicked by whatever fate threw at me. You might put me in the doormat variety of people - pleased to be able to wipe people's boots, and happy when they took some notice of me. It took the combined efforts of loving parents and husband (as well as a few very dedicated friends) to raise me to a situation of self-awareness where I realised that I didn't have to accept the mud on my face. Self-assertion is an amazing tool of empowerment - never underestimate it!

And McKay (& Witchone, and whoever else is reading this) you ARE loveable too. Whatever backgrounds we come from, however awful or reasonable our histories, we have to understand our self-worth or we will be worthless in the eyes of a society that can be very cruel and selfish.

Ooh, don't I go on!!!
x x Driven

... an I was somewhere in the middle of you two - I can relate to the "this person is being nice to me for an ulterior motif" of you, Mr M., but I used to FURTHER twist it to "So I'd better be extra nice so I can get more out of it than THEY do" And then on the other hand, I was also a bit of a doormat o a certain extent untill roused - and then I was so verbally aggressive I think I could have probably given Christ himself an inferiority complex! In the end, I got to the stage where I was so screwed up and confused and frightened I took up - believe it or not - Woman's self defense as a means of letting off steam - and the tutor there suggested I took an assertion course... I never looked back from that - the concept blew my mind, that you didn't HAVE to be defensive or agressive to b able to do your own thing. ANd the other concept - there really ARE nice people out there... who are straight and honest and don't have any hidden agendas. I had a look out and.. well bless me! The book was right! And so began my long trek into.. well, being human rather than on the periphries. It took a lot of soul searching, and a fair bit of councelling - and I won't blame all of it on my adoption - only half. I could have chosen to react differently, but I didn't, I copied my familly until I copped on that it wasn't the best way for me to behave....

Anyway, that's my sixpenn'orth for today - it's too hot and nice and sunny to angst, so lets all like ourselves and each other for the rest of the day... and posibly the next one and the one after!

Yay! for Women's Self Defense & Assertion Courses! (Although actually I haven't done Self-Defense since I was at school 15 years ago, and I learnt to get assertive through the Hard Knock Life - just call me Annie).

Following the family's example is by no means unusual - unfortunately too few people learn that their family is not the best role-model, and then society fails them too. I'm happy you managed to get out of the well-trodden paths of "my family acts that way, so why shouldn't I?" Like I said a few postings back, I was foster-sister to a good-few children - and it was clear from a few weeks' intimacy which children would take the experience my parents & I were able to give them, and make something of it, and which other children would end up just like their parents. Quite an interesting mix, and I'm not sure how to solve society's ills (not at 5:30am, after 3 hours' sleep, anyway). So I'm overwhelmingly pleased when I discover that someone has managed to pull themself out of the one of the less-pleasant ruts of society!

x x Driver