A Conversation for The Fate of the Last Supper Thirteen - a Very Brief Addendum
how unfair it is to be judas
Uncle Heavy [sic] Started conversation Dec 21, 2002
hes damned, apparently, even though he appears to have been nothing mroe than a tool in the divine plan
how unfair it is to be judas
Szlater Posted Dec 24, 2002
If I understand correctly, prophesy needn't mean predestination. Judas' betrayl of Jesus was no more involuntary than Peter's denials.
If you accept an all-knowing God, as Christians do, then you have to accept the fact that He knows what you are going to do before you do. This doesn't mean that you don't have free-will, however, it does mean that your fate after your death was known to God before time itself began.
how unfair it is to be judas
Gaggle Halgrunt Posted Sep 15, 2004
There is debate about the true meaning of the original Aramaic word which was subsequently translated into Greek and Latin as "betray". The original Aramaic word could more correctly be translated as "hand over".
This interpretation makes much more sense to me. Jesus knew that in order for his mission to be fulfilled, he needed to be handed over to the Romans for execution. Otherwise the Resurrection couldn't have happened.
The sentence that Jesus said to Judas - "You will hand me over" (rather than "You will betray me") sounds in this context as a command to Judas to do just that, rather than a prophecy of a pre-ordained action. Judas, in this respect, drew the short straw, not least because of the misunderstanding of the rest of the apostles about this command, and who later may have condemned Judas for carrying out this action.
There is also the issue of the subsequent early Christians who wished to spread the word of the Gospel, mistranslating this command as "betray", perhaps intentionally. We have to remember that the apostles/missionaries were trying to spread the word of the Gospel within the then very powerful Roman Empire. Had they blamed the Romans for Jesus' death, they wouldn't have gained much favour with the Roman leadership/aristocracy (much worse than they had in the time of Nero), and arguably, Constantine might never have converted if this had been the case. It was a clever move on the part of the Christian missionaries to absolve the Romans of all responsibilty, portraying the ruthless and cruel Pontius Pilate as a man who was backed into a corner by the Jewish priests and Jewish population of Jerusalem for fear of a riot, not wanting to murder an innocent man, and washing his hands of all responsibility for the wishes of the Jews. Pilate probably didn't care less whether another Jew/Aramaic man was executed, and the Romans were equally to blame as the Jewish priesthood. The Jews thereby became the scapegoats for Christ's death, and Judas especially (with a name meaning "of Judah") became the personification of this slander.
Karl
how unfair it is to be judas
cosminsky Posted Mar 23, 2005
As many Christians believe as well from Romans 3:22 (This rigtheousness from God comes from through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace..)and Acts 2:38 (Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.), you must repent for your sins and ask God for forgiveness. In Judas' act of knowing he was wrong and not asking God forgiveness he sealed his ticket. Our Father is loving and forgiving or not one of us would be saved, Judas took the cowards way out rather than facing God.
Thanks for the full story, its nice to have it all on one page!
1 Corinthians 16:23-24
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
My love to all of you in Christ Jesus. Amen.[c]
how unfair it is to be judas
Gaggle Halgrunt Posted Mar 24, 2005
Cosminsky,
this is where the fundamental difference in our interpretation of Judas' actions lies. I don't necessarily believe that Judas' actions were "wrong", because they were absolutely necessary in order for the crucifixion (and subsequent resurrection) of Jesus to take place. Jesus knew this, but perhaps Judas didn't realise the implications of his actions.
Also, why should Judas have asked God for forgiveness for his actions? Judas had faithfully obeyed Jesus' (i.e. God's) command to hand him over to the Romans.
Judas committed suicide because he FELT guilty about the outcome of his actions, but it doesn't imply that his original intentions were underhanded. To call him a coward only serves to perpetuate the slander against him. In any event, is suicide really a way out from facing God? Wouldn't Judas' soul have come face to face with God anyway?
how unfair it is to be judas
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Oct 6, 2006
This entry mentions that Judas is an unfortunate name for a kid. A far worse name is Chadwick Preston Gay, but that's not the thrust of my post.
Interestingly, around 165BC to 145BC, a man named Judas Maccabeus was responsible for liberating Israel from Greek oppression. He established the festival of Hannukkah to commemorate the liberation of Jerusalem, and ironically forged an alliance between Israel and Rome. His story is told in 1 Maccabees, which seems to be one of the more historically accurate book of the Old Testament.
So weirdly, when Jesus was alive, the name Judas likely implied heroism. Ah, how times changed...
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