A Conversation for Evolution and Creation - an Introduction and Glossary

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Post 81

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

The SF writer is James P Hogan and I'm linking to some articles by him...having googled him.

http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/bulletin.php?id=84

http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/bulletin.php?id=90

http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/bulletin.php?id=193
(Denton is a New Zealander&gtsmiley - winkeye

http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/bulletin.php?id=1043
(Note particularly, the 4th bulleted point, "Why ID is not "creationism in disguise."


You're not going to like 'em, but still you should read them, as you'd expect me to read something putting Darwin's p.o.v., and I would! (I don't accept everything Hogan says, he's a libertarian and heavily American influenced, for goodness' sake!)

Vicky


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Post 82

Giford

Hi Vicky,

I'm off to read those links now. But meantime a quick look on Wikipedia shows that Hogan doubts not just evolution, but also the reality of the Holocaust, the link between HIV and AIDS and global warming. He even supports Velikovsky's ideas. In other words, he sounds just a teensy bit like a crank.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 83

Giford

Yes, I'm afraid those links - particularly the second one - are a laundry-list of Creationist claims, many of which are factually incorrect. Hogan may not be a Christian, but he seems to have got all his information on evolution from Christian writers.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 84

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

All right,I have to admit he's a bit of a crank! smiley - sadface I found him listed on an American site about libertarian writers, and that's how I think of him primarily. I did not know the Holocaust thing about him...

Vicky


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Post 85

tacsatduck- beware the <sheep> lie

Well I would love to believe that didn't happen either, but unfortunately....


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Post 86

Giford

Hi TSD,

Well put.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 87

Giford

Hi Vicky,

No, no, no, but you need to...

Oh, hang on, we agree! smiley - yikessmiley - winkeyesmiley - smileysmiley - hug And there was me just about to suggest we start another thread to discuss his points in detail!

By the way, did you mean 'libertarian' or 'liberal'?

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 88

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

I meant libertarian, as in a follower of Ayn Rand, or one or other of the schisms that has occurred since her death.

Libertarians, whether of the Randian or other persuasion, give me shivers, they're well scary people. I *loved" Hogan's novel 'Echoes of an Alien Sky', it had the one quality I look for in SF - a sense of wonder or as we call it in sfnal circles "sensa wunda", and despite that a main feature of it is the total destruction of the human race (!), it has also that sense of optimism of Star Trek TOS, and early ST;TNG... Therefore I don't want to believe Hogan's a Randian, or a Holocaust denier, but if that's where the evidence leads, I gotta accept it, sigh...

I was just thinking about Francis Collins' book, which I read recently, 'The Language of God'... He has some harsh things to say about ID and creationism, you'd appreciate that if nothing else about it!smiley - biggrin

Vicky


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Post 89

Giford

Yeah, I thought you'd be opposed to libertarianism but thought from your post you were saying you weren't. It's clear now. smiley - smiley

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 90

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

Okey-dey! smiley - ok

Vicky


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Post 91

Giford

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7385949.stm

Genome of the duck-billed platypus is unveiled. Surprisingly, it does apparently have some avian genetic features, specifically in the sex-determining chromosomes - though W***pedia claims these genes are also found in amphibians and fish and may be transitional in platypuses.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 92

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

That's fascinating stuff, Giford!

Vicky


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Post 93

tacsatduck- beware the <sheep> lie

Best part:
"The platypus is so strange that it was considered a hoax when sent from Australia to European researchers in the 19th Century."
smiley - laugh


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Post 94

Giford

http://www.reuters.com/article/artsNews/idUSL0992091620080509?sp=true

The leading Islamic Creationist Hurun Yaha has been sentenced to 30 years in jail for - as far as I can tell from the above article - publishing his works at a profit.

He is appealing against the sentence.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 95

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

smiley - erm Gif, it's a 3 year sentence, not a 30 year one! I can see that it's not entirely clear what he was sentenced for... but it certainly isn't for "publishing his works at a profit"!

Vicky


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Post 96

Giford

smiley - blush so it is. The article says he's been convicted of 'creating an illegal organization for personal gain'. I'm assuming that the 'illegal organisation' is his creationist publishing group - there's nothing in the article to indicate he's involved in any other criminal activity.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 97

Giford

A couple of interesting transitional fossils have turned up over the last couple of weeks.

Materpiscis attenboroughi (yes, named after A20218628) gives evidence that live birth evolved earlier than previously thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materpiscis

And a 'frog-amander' - a frog/salamander transitional - has been unearthed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/05/21/scifrog121.xml

As if that weren't enough, we have a praying mantis transitional (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080425-amber-mantis.html) trapped in amber and a sea-urchin/starfish transitional.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 98

Giford

Another 'fishibian': http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/06/25/fishfossil.ap/index.html

This one is unlikely to be directly ancestral to modern tetrapods, but still matches the definition of a transitional.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 99

Giford

And continuing a run of fishy transitionals:

http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2008/07/the_mysterious_origin_of_the_w_1.php

A flatfish transitional, with the eye rotated part-way around the head.

"Flatfishes are born with one eye on each side of their head, but [...] one eye migrates to the other side of the fish's head [...], producing asymmetrical juvenile fishes." Adult fish have both eyes on one side of the head, allowing them to lie eyes-up on the bottom. Now an adult transitional has been found with a part-rotated eye.

Gif smiley - geek


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Post 100

Giford

Something from last month I seem to have missed:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=scientists-close-to-recon

Harvard Medical School researchers have produced a highly primitive cell consisting of just a membrane and DNA, capable of reproduction. Yet another hole in the increasingly collander-like idea of ID/IC.

Gif smiley - geek


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