A Conversation for Embarrassing Questions About Sexual Orientation
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My litte bit
Wonko Started conversation Jul 6, 2001
Hi Fragilis,
could it be, that there are three different approaches to the problem:
1. People who are gay or straight, live it and don't worry about it.
2. People who think about it without actually beeing in a situation where a decision is to be made (e.g some they have fallen in love with).
3. People who act according to an external trigger, like meeting a person they are attracted by.
I think I'm category 3, with a high trigger threshhold preventing me from falling in love with men very often.
My theory is that people who are in 2 tend to get gay, wheras people in 3 tend to be straight.
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 6, 2001
I don't think there's any single theory that works for everybody.
Seriously, you have two problems. First is that there are people who live outside of your three choices, or firmly in between two of them. For instance, I am celibate but have plenty of moments where I am attracted to someone of my gender. Just because I don't act on those attraction doesn't mean I feel comfortable portraying myself as straight.
Second, different people use different criteria for 'gay' and 'straight.' For you, a guy who has the occasional daliance with another guy can still be straight. For some folks, anything more than a single experience to try things out makes you at least bisexual. And some folks even believe that it just takes an occasional bit with a girl and you're still straight now matter how often you're with other guys!
In the end, I think the only thing you can do is define yourself in a way that makes you comfortable. From there, I recommend a piece of etiquette I read once. Always take somebody at their word when it comes to their sexual orientation label. They know themselves better than you know them. And anyway, it's insulting to have someone accuse you of baldfaced lies about your orientation. It's better to be polite, eh?
Sorry. That was rather a bit of ranting, wasn't it?
My litte bit
Wonko Posted Jul 9, 2001
No need to be sorry, I do understand that some people just don't take one's declared sexual preference seriously and that you can get enough of spoil sports. I keep getting those reactions too, like: so you are poly, no big deal, I know some couple xy who are into BDSM, should see them, compared to that you are quite plain vanilla.
My etiquette is that I leave it to everbody to do as they please, and to form an opinion based on actions.
Maybe you could help me with one thing: I keep wondering, how would a man I eventualy fall in love with be like? Occationaly I meet one who comes close, but there's always a catch. I once forced myself to overcome this (nice word play, isn't it?), but never managed to do that again, even not with members of my family. Does that count me out as bi? I don't hope so, as I had great fun in the sexual part of it. Are there any tricks to gain more knowledge about me or should I just wait for some love to emerge?
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 9, 2001
The only trick I can suggest is to explore your fantasies in a safe environment.
Go read gay male erotica online if you're into that sort of thing. Try to pay attention to your own passing attractions to guys passing by on the street. Sit back and fantasize for a while about this hypothetical guy you could fall in love with, and see if you can come up with someone you'd really take a chance on.
There's also the bold step of finding a support group for questioning people, as many reasonably large cities have them. These don't act as a dating service, but you will get a chance to see whether other people's stories or feelings sound similar to yours.
Other than that? Watch and wait. For some folks, it just takes time for things to become clear.
As a final note, you should be aware that you're not recognizing most of the gay and bisexual men around you. They're passing you by on the street, and you're no wiser for having seen them. That's what the gay community is for.
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 9, 2001
Just FYI, the first draft of this entry is done now. I'm sure there are lingering typos and other issues. But at least the questions have answers now!
My litte bit
Wonko Posted Jul 10, 2001
Many thanks Fragilis!
Yes, when I fanatasize about other men, it seems very good and sexy to me. It turns me on. That would probably count as the first step. But what's bothering me, even when looking at many men, there's not a single one who attracts me enough to make a move.
I will read your entry! You're doin' such a good work, it's fun to read your entries.
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 10, 2001
Well, are your criteria for men higher than for women? If so, why? Does it just require a more attractive guy to make it worth your while? Or are you artificially raising the requirements because the idea of following through scares you a little, you're more afraid of rejection, etc?
Thanks. It's marvelous to get some encouragement. It felt like I was writing only for my own amusement for quite a while. I'm glad I'm not!
My litte bit
Wonko Posted Jul 10, 2001
Good questions. I'm not sure. Maybe I'm scared, although I already had a intimate relationship with a man. But it was kind of emotionless, maybe that keeps from trying again.
I wish I could write that good in English too. My entries are very short because it takes quite some time to fix the worst errors.
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 10, 2001
Don't worry. I'm reading you perfectly.
Perhaps the one experience made you think differently about trying again. I know I've had that experience before.
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 10, 2001
Eh? It wasn't so much about a lack of emotion. Rather, a lack of success. I was rather hard on myself for a while about not being able to get a girlfriend, so I didn't have the nerve to try for a while. Of course, it was very self-defeating. If I never tried, I could certainly never succeed. I finally got the nerve again much later and things turned out well.
My litte bit
Wonko Posted Jul 11, 2001
Congratulations! I think the hardest part is the kissing, which the man I was together with didn't want and therefore I never experienced.
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 11, 2001
Yeah, that's a kind of artificial limit. I feel most peculiar if I was unable to kiss someone in that kind of circumstance.
*putting a cigar in my mouth and waggling my eyebrows*
I've heard of a fear of commitment, but that's ridiculous!
My litte bit
Wonko Posted Jul 12, 2001
Speaking of commitment, would you live together with a woman?
My litte bit
Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession Posted Jul 12, 2001
Certainly. There hasn't a good opportunity for that in the past. But I would if the right gal came along. Obviously, I'm not looking to live with anyone at the moment. But we're talking about a hypothetical future.
My litte bit
Researcher 168814 Posted Aug 19, 2001
Just went through you´re article, and read you´re lines with Wonko. He was the one guy bound to turn up ( * E waves at Wonko"HI!Wonko!" * )
I think it sums up things quite well, and with little space to "but" in. I am personly of the opinion, that you have a choice of sexual orientation. I don´t believe you are born streight, curved, bi, homo nor heterosexual, but it´s a lot of what you experience, and how much emotion you are alowed to feel to people of your own sex or the other. Look into muslim countrys. Some of their behavior would be classified as strictly homoerotic, but it´s quite ok with them, and if you´d tell them, they´d be bashing you´re head for the accusation of being gay.
It´s a lot of culture in it. Just like you can be a beer drinker, wine drinker, or bialcoholic...
O.K, Fragilis, I just want to support the fact, that it´s a good article, and you´re doing a good job on it.
My litte bit
Wonko Posted Aug 20, 2001
Hi Engländer! Do you know the this joke?: I'm a nonpractising bi-sexual! Well, I like it because I can laugh at myself!
My litte bit
Researcher 168814 Posted Aug 20, 2001
Perhaps you need practice to being bi-sexual. I guess we all are potentially bisexualls... Oh, that gets difficult.
*E goes to jukebox, puts on Marvin Gay, Sexual healing...*
Key: Complain about this post
- 1
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My litte bit
- 1: Wonko (Jul 6, 2001)
- 2: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 6, 2001)
- 3: Wonko (Jul 9, 2001)
- 4: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 9, 2001)
- 5: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 9, 2001)
- 6: Wonko (Jul 10, 2001)
- 7: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 10, 2001)
- 8: Wonko (Jul 10, 2001)
- 9: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 10, 2001)
- 10: Wonko (Jul 10, 2001)
- 11: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 10, 2001)
- 12: Wonko (Jul 11, 2001)
- 13: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 11, 2001)
- 14: Wonko (Jul 12, 2001)
- 15: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 12, 2001)
- 16: Wonko (Jul 13, 2001)
- 17: Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession (Jul 13, 2001)
- 18: Researcher 168814 (Aug 19, 2001)
- 19: Wonko (Aug 20, 2001)
- 20: Researcher 168814 (Aug 20, 2001)
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