A Conversation for Gabriel Urbain Faure - the Composer

Later life, influences, works

Post 1


Please permit me to make a couple of observations .... (I've only just noticed this article).

I think this article sets out Faure's early life well, and gives an insight into how his character was formed. I'd like to suggest that the following be added to it:

- information about his later (adult) life.

- some major influences on his work (such as the Great War ... what effect did it have on him?)

- a list of some of his major works, perhaps with brief descriptions of some of them.

Later life, influences, works

Post 2

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Yes... I thought perhaps that might be the nature of your comments...

I hadn't thought anyone would stumble upon the article before I finished. I forgot, while I was typing, to put any sort of notice of 'under construction' on it, and figured that was okay since it was barely noticeable. smiley - smiley

At any rate, I certainly intend to add more about his life past the age of eight! I will need to do more research for a complete listing of his works as I don't think I included that in the original project. I have only a brief paragraph on the fact that he faught in the war in 1870 (franco-prussian) but all I have is that he fought, and when the war ended, he returned immediately to his work in Paris. As to the effect on him, I was unaware of anything specific. I'd be glad to have your help.

After all, this having been a project for gr. 13 French, it wasn't something that required an exceeding attention to accurate detail - my teacher of course knew very little of Faure, as did most of my class. I am sure it's all correct, but if your interpretations or knowledge say differently, I would welcome your suggestions! smiley - biggrin



Later life, influences, works

Post 3


OK - I'll go through my bookshelves tonight, and get something back to you.. Happy to help!

Later life, influences, works

Post 4


Dear Lady K,

A few jottings about Faure for your article - hope you find them

Major influence seems to have been French nationalism (not war,
patronage, or anything like that). He founded the National Society for
French Music, and much of his music is traditionally French ...
refined, cultured, highly aristocratic. He overlaps the Impressionist
school (Debussy, Satie, Ravel etc.,) and employs some Impressionist

The other big influence is a love of choral music ... a lot of his
works are choral; other works "sound" choral in their arrangement -
rather simple. (He was not a great orchestrator).

He was a pupil of Saint-Saens; in turn, he taught Ravel.

Musical style: Song ... even back to plainsong, but with modern
concepts added. Used a flattened seventh (like plainsong) to make the
key sound ambiguous, yet restful. Use of sevenths and ninths in chords,
carried from one chord to another allows him to avoid the usual
"resolutions" or cadences.

From about 1912 to 1920 his hearing degenerated.

Hope that helps!

Now a question ... actually, asking a favour .....

You know that I'm a "field researcher" for the Guide, and I've just
completed "managing" a music project (on Baroque Music) for the h2g2
University. I'm now looking at 20th Century French music ... There are
several Guide entires for relevant composers , and your piece on Faure
will add to them. I wondered about starting another Uni. project to
write an "overview" article
on that period, linking the entries on all the composers - it would be
a useful addition to the Guide, I feel - very often, guide articles ar
good, but isolated. This one would put several links across entries ...

Would you be interested in being a member of the project team? The
commitment would be to do any of the following:
- finish the Faure article;
- review, and help me draft the covering article (I'll do the research
and write the first draft);
- consider any other articles that belong in this project.

I will try to set up a team of about 4 people, so there's not too much
work for members. Let me know if you'd be interested..

...and btw ... check your mailbox! I think it's full - mail is getting bounced from it!

Later life, influences, works

Post 5

Kumetanzuka the capricious


Wow, some of the technical stuff is a little oout of the scope of the project as-is. But I will look at what I have, and perhaps do some additional research so that I can incorporate it.

Regarding my Inbox, yes, I just cleared that up. I didn't know bouncing could happen until my dad mailed my other email address (which, btw, should you need it, is [email protected])! I hope I haven't missed too much... I was away from my computer for 24 hours and look what happens!

I would be happy to join the research team. I have been considering joining or starting some project at the University for some time, but hadn't gotten around to it (they finally got around to adding my name to the Royal Procrastinator's Society Member List the other day!). Since you ask, I'd be delighted!


Later life, influences, works

Post 6


That's great! Consider yourself on the team! ... (which atm is you & me ...) . I shall ask a couple of other friends, who I think will be interested. Once we have a team, I'll write up the project submission, we can all check it, then submit it ... so this activity won't start 'til after Christmas. Be patient .. it's good fun, and having linked articles is a big plus for the guide.

Yell anytime you'd like another hand with the Faure article (I'd like to see it included in the project, if that's OK with you - it generally gets things accepted a lot quicker than waiting for the Peer Review system to work!).

Thanks again.

Later life, influences, works

Post 7

Kumetanzuka the capricious


Well, the article is complete now, in that I have pretty much set out the project I originally wrote, with several changes. I haven't specifically added any of your points yet, but I would like to do that soon.

If you'd like to take a look at it and let me know if you see any glaring inaccuracies, stylistic, factual, grammatical, lexical errors, that'd be much appreciated. It's not that I'm not proficient in English, just that this has become a translation to English of a project written in French by an anglophone (me) who did the research in both languages. Thus, some stuff is a bit confused, and confusing!

Also specifically... if you have them handy - do you know the names of Fauré's 2 sons? And any more details about his relations with Ravel, Saint-Saens, and the two women, Viardot and Fremiet? I will do the research myself of course, but no reason you can't be one of my sources!

Which reminds me!

How can I put my references on the page? I haven't learned that one yet. There are URLs, books, and cd-rom.


Later life, influences, works

Post 8


I will read through the article, and check the English & style. I'll report back on that later.

His two sons were Emmanuel (elder) and Phillipe.

There's a lot of excellent biographical information - including about Saint Seans and Ravel, also About the women in his life ... at this site:

(It's an IP address, rather than a URL, which lay be why you didn't know of it. I've set this link so you can double click on it, or copy and paste it - your browser will be able to pick it up).

I know you can do references (as numbered footnotes) in GuideML, but (confession!) I haven't learnt how to do it - I've left it up to the sub-editor! If you look in the GuideML clinic, or ask a GURU for help, they should be able to tell you. (Sorry!)

Later life, influences, works

Post 9

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Thanks so much!

I will follow the link and do some more work on the article, perhaps tomorrow, and this weekend. It should be about finished before the new year!


Later life, influences, works

Post 10


You are welcome, Lady K. (I'm back!)

I've proof-read your article, and have only a few suggestions to make. They are given below:

" Fauré was not a virtuoso like W.A. Mozart, or Camille Saint-Saëns - his teacher and friend -( but ) nor
did he have ....." I suggest you remove the "but"

"Fauré's music, as a result, is ( very ) unique,...." I suggest you remove the "very"

" Gabriel was (quite) a solitary and quiet child..." I suggest you remove the "quite"

"Saint-Saëns brought to the school, and to Gabriel, a taste for modern music
that branched away from the traditional classicism. " You could extend the end of this sentence to say: "...classicism of the cosmopolitan French school, as defined by Cesar Franck."

One subjective observation (not a correction) ... You mention his larger works and one symphony. You might say that he was not a particularly skilled orchestrator, as a result, many people find his larger works rather lacking in impact ...

Later life, influences, works

Post 11

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Tag! You're it! smiley - biggrin (just kidding)

Thank you. Those are just the kind of observations I needed.

I knew that sentence about classicism was sort of left hanging, partly because the French that I had just didn't quite make sense when I translated back. What I had written was (imagine the accents in):


I wasn't sure whether that was to mean that St-S introduced a style that got away from Schumann, Liszt and Wagner, or whether he introduced the work of Schumann Liszt and Wagner. Damn my ambiguous punctuation!

Thank you also for the observation about the large-scale works. The article is rather brief about Faure's actual music, and that observation will help fix that.


Later life, influences, works

Post 12


smiley - smiley

Yes, I see what you mean about the French text. Glad to be a help to you.

My proposed Uni project on French music looks as if it will work. A couple of researchers are interested in taking part, so I will draft a proposal, introduce the team members to each other, and let you all review the proposal ... This may not happen 'til the other side of Christmas, though!


Later life, influences, works

Post 13

Kumetanzuka the capricious

Sounds good.

I will likely be around for most of the season. In January, if the stupid TA strike is over, I'll be back in school. I may not have the time I have now to devote to the Guide, but I'll still be around to help when I can for sure.

Lady K


Later life, influences, works

Post 14


Great! I'd better get drafting this proposal then ... smiley - smiley

Key: Complain about this post