h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

He-he... one, two or three or more?

I don't really know...nor does anyone.

I believe in a or more diety/dieties....but with the muddeled mess mankind has made of the instructions, I feel we are all left pretty much to our own interpretations.

Scary thought, ain't it!?

NM

Oh, yes, indeed! My parents decided to bring us up without any teaching whatsoever, so we could 'make up (her)own mind(s)' when we grew up. Pretty difficult, with no information to go on! So I embarked on a few years of total confusion and looking around. It took years, and all, and I went down a few detours... But that's for another time. Thanks for your answer!

I know your parents end of it.

I grew up US Southern Baptist, and in an effort to allow my only son freedom to choose his own faith, my first wife and I made a concious effort to stay nuetral.(hows' THAT for a "run-on" sentence!)

I don't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing. Hes' 27 now, and claims some form of Paganism that most Pagans I've talked to don't agree with. Oh well...we've talked, deeply, on frequent occasions, and I find he has a solid belief....just not the one he claims.

Its' a tad funny..I understand what he believes better than he does. I guess the reason is that he actually tends to agree with my thoughts on the subject. I suppose my child was paying more attention to me than I thought, back in his teenage years.

It makes me worry, sometimes. If hes' picked up my beliefs and I happen to be wrong....that was the thing I was originally trying to avoid!

NM

I have three sons, and tried to bring up the youngest one *with* the religion I hold to - Anglo-Catholic. He's going through the question everything stage (he's 16) which is fine. He accuses me of not allowing him his own beliefs - but I do - I have to! Ultimately, people will decide for themselves.

There is no compultion in religion people have to decide what path to follow for them selves.

Adib

Exactly! I am reminded of a verse I learned from my parents: 'A man convinced against his will/Is of the same opinion still.

Just some thoughts about the origins of the god myth/story/whatever...

The most powerful idea that describes the shaping of human thought is Dawkins`s idea of a MEME (rhymes with gene). A meme is a thought, or piece of mental info which survives and propigates by whatever means. The best example (given, in fact by Dawkins) is the song "auld lang syne"... the actual lyrics at the end of the verse go "FOR AULD ...... LANG........ SYYYYNNEE...." but people sing "FOR THE SAKE OF AULD LANG SYNE" the word "sake" is an effective meme, as its sibilant beginning and the harsh "k" make it prominant in the song, and therefore anyone trying to learn it picks up the word sake, sings it, passes it on......

ANYWAY, the god meme is, if anything, more powerful. Picture the scene... a million years ago, tribes roaming around Africa. Any free thinking tribes would naturally be in compatition with religious tribes for food, land, yada yada ya.
The religious tribes would believe it was their holy duty to kill everyone who didn`t believe in their god (or, in other words, wasn`t in their tribe). thus, the god meme propigated itself.
Unfortunately, it is now so deeply intrenched into our culture, science and minds (some of our greatest minds have been blinded by god... how would descarts` meditations have gone if he hadnt seen the need to include a deity?)it is impossible to eradicate. If the history of man was to be written impartially, religion would be seen as an understandable early mistake, which was then impossible to get rid of, which hampered our development.

Sorry that was so long winded!

......but quite logical.

Which most religions are not.

I've spent my 47 years on this earth trying to find a belief that made sense, and was not hypocritical. Sorry....haven't found it yet.

Some beliefs I've found downright comical...as in, "can a logical thinking modern human actually believe that could POSSIBLY be true!" Some are benign systems that can claim the "who cares, believe the crap if you want to"rating. Others are just dangerous....to the believer and/or those around them.

So far I've not been able to pin down a single thing that religion has added to the betterment of mankind. Before anyone brings up moral rules, keep in mind that they change constantly...inspite of, and sometimes because of, religion.

Me...I think I'll keep my mind open and if something comes along which just slaps me in the face as truth, I'll accept it. 'Till then....guess I'll be going to h**l!

NM

Researcher 222006, your story about the origin of God, is interesting, but in my opinion, displays your pre-conceived idea that belief belongs to the stupid and the weak.
Your statement about Descartes, was also made about Newton - I remember a clever story in Omni science fiction magazine back in the 1980s (who remembers Omni?). A man used a time machine to take a scientific calculator back to Isaac Newton, to make up for all the time he 'wasted' on religion - and ends up *causing* Newton to 'waste' all his time on religion, because he was so freaked out by the time traveller!
Why do you assume that a religious tribe would automatically kill a tribe of 'free thinkers'? (Cue funny mental image of Carl Sagan, Dawkins, Bertrand Russell, DNA and Isaac Asimov, battling in animal skins, with spears against a tribe led by Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham who are armed with books...)

I hate to interceed, but higher knowledge breeds fear and fear breeds violence....at least as I have observed about human instinct.

NM

FS, I don't understand why you think 'higher knowledge' always has that result! What do you mean by 'higher knowledge', anyway? If you mean that having a religious belief leads to arrogance, I suppose it can, but that isn't necessarily so at all!

Sorry...I guess I did not word that right.

"If you mean that having a religious belief leads to arrogance, I suppose it can, but that isn't necessarily so at all!"

Actually, I believe right the opposite. It is the Free Thinkers who become arrogant. The religious of the world, with their dogma and superstition, strike down the knowledge.

Thus we are cast into this circle, only occasionally "coming up for the air" of wisdom and reality.

Thus it has been for the 50,000 years Homo Erectus has walked this planet.

Had it not been for the superstitious "clubbing" those with the truth, there is no telling where our technology might be today....remember,most of it has come in the last 200 years(imagine 50,000 years of the same progress!!!!!!).

The majority of that superstition is the direct result of religion. Sad that such a comfort for some is such a bridle to the whole of mankind.

Human nature, and history, also bare out this truth.....Those who feel that their authority is threatened will ALWAYS strike out against those they feel are threatening. Sometimes with reason, sometimes not.

The intellectuals usually loose in that bargain....they are not quite bloodthirsty enough.



NM

I evidently misunderstood you, Fairly Strange...

>>Human nature, and history, also bare out this truth.....Those who feel that their authority is threatened will ALWAYS strike out against those they feel are threatening. Sometimes with reason, sometimes not.

The intellectuals usually loose in that bargain....they are not quite bloodthirsty enough.<<
Sadly, you're for a large part right in what you say here, F.S., but not entirely. There are many men and women of science with firm and genuine religious belief - people whose belief not only didn't hinder their scientific acheivement, but whom it actually helped! Teilhard de Chardin springs to mind, though he's not the best example - and Sir Isaac Newton (Sir I Tak Newt Weight as he's called on the Warner Brothers cartoon show Animaniacs...)

Della, you are quite correct.

I am afraid many people associate a religious belief with lack of intellect, or knowledge.

That is far from the truth.

While I cannot pin myself to any one faith, I deeply respect all who firmly hold thier beliefs.

It has been my observation that religion has nothing to do with knowledge, but knowledge can strongly affect religion.

That is the reasoning for my earlier comments.

NM

Salaam alaikum,

Hi to those who have no idea what I just said laugh.
I think you will find that the Arab nations while believing in Islam came up with lots of scientific discoverys. Infact western science came from Islamic Spain when it was ruled by the Muslims. Due to the fact that Islam tells people that the most virtues of there aith are those who seek knowledge and are fair and just.

Allah hafiz

Adib

While I have no idea what any Arabic word would mean, trust me.

The effect of the middle eastern world is not lost on western ears.

We owe our alphabet and numerical characters to them. That is just the base of what they have contributed to mankind.

Their revalations on the heavens guided the early western astronomers in their efforts to discover the cosmos. That is why we are where we are now in the scientific community.

Hopefully their future will be as enlightening as their past has been to the world.

NM

Hi, Adib - it means peace and something else, doesn't it? So, right back at you!
I know that historically, it was only Islam that kept science alive through the Middle Ages.

it means "peace be upon you" and the reply is va alaikum assalam which means " and may peace be upon you to".

I think it is a better greating than just plain hello.

Adib

Yes, it could be better than 'hello', although how often do people say it insincerely,in the same way they say 'hi', or 'ssup', which is what Jimmy and his friends say...
But if a greeting is a blessing, and blessings *work* - that's pretty powerful. 'Good bye' once orignally meant "God be with ye" - I wonder how many people realise that?

No idea.