h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If you have ever given your name to a Mormon, or if a Mormon has ever visited your local public records office, you have an excellent chance of going to Heaven because your name will be stored in a computer in their nuclear bombproof vault under a large mountain near Salt Lake City, USA.
All persons whose names are stored in the computer (i.e. 'whose names are written in the book')will be saved - even cannibalistic heathens and atheists; anyway that's what two men who recently knocked on my door told me.

I'm a Christian, and here's my take on it:

I'm RLDS (and thus don't like Mormons either) and about "going to hell" ... I don't think it actually works like that, even based on the fundamental beliefs of most Protestants. (of which I am not one)

Many/most Christians (though I can't really say for Catholics, I gave up trying to understand them a while ago) believe that one's time on earth is what they call a "probationary period."

As Neo said in the Matrix Reloaded, "The problem is choice." That is, according to the Christian faith, the reason for mortal existance, to independently choose between right and wrong. To eventually settle on one or the other is our ultimate human destiny. Life is a sort of battlegrounds between God and Satan for the souls of mankind. This game (called the Battle of the Ages) has very complex rules which are partially beyond human understanding, but basically every man and woman is born with a basic understanding that some things just aren't right.

Like, say, a cannibal is born. The ones being cannibalized are dehumanized in his mind of course, but on some level he does think to himself, "There's something wrong here, because that would really hurt if they did it to me."

This is what Walt Disney calls your "conscience": something many athiest/heathen parents have attempted to drive out of their children in both ancient and modern times.

At the same time, there is temptation. Probably a concept everyone is farmiliar with.

I believe ultimately, all human beings are given a chance to choose between these two extremes, Good and Evil, either in this life or in the next. Revelations (the last book in the Bible) talks about a "little season" in which "Satan shall again be loosed" after being thrown into the pit for a thousand years or so. At this point, the two forces meet in battle one last time for all the souls still undeclared. (example: heathens who have never heard of the concept of Good and Evil and also aborted babies and other people who die early in childhood, among others)

What this all boils down to is, "Hell is for people who choose to go there and know it."
Nerd42

As far as I understand it, you are basically saying what it says in the Koran; not that I'm a Muslim (perhaps someone will correct me if I've get this wrong), but I have a Koran paperback and have thumbed through it a couple of times.
The premise, as I see it, is that you won't suffer the wrath of God (or Allah) if you didn't know about the teachings of God (or Allah) in the first place. You only get punished if you knew and signed up to the teachings of God (or Allah) and then rejected them.
On the Christian side (I have a Bible too and have also thumbed through that)if you are a so-called savage living a cannibal existence in Tierra del Fuego, New Zealand, Java or wherever and have never heard of God presumably you will be ok. But once the Church of England, the Church of Spain, the Church of France, the Church of Portugal, or whichever colonial power has sent the missionary there and the holy books have been dished out and all the sermons preached and you are educated that you must wear clothes, if you then proceed to kill and eat the missionary you are in big trouble and the Devil will get your soul.
It seems to me that a follower of a religion who goes astray will find hermself in deeper mire than a simple atheist - not so much for the 'crime' but mainly for being in 'breach of contract' as it were.
As for God - She doubtless expects many to fall by the wayside.

To which god are you referring in that last sentence? The Judeo-Christian God is clearly described in the(ir) scriptures as male, no doubt about it. As I understand it, the Muslims don't believe in goddesses either.

But anyway, apart from that so far as being "in deeper" yes, it's like the laws of nations: a foriegner gets welcomed, a traitor gets hung.

I don't claim to judge whether or not someone's had ample oppourtunity or not. It may be logically possible for someone to spend a lifetime studying Christianity and still be judged by God as not having had "ample oppourtunity" to choose between right and wrong. On the other hand, it may be that if someone knows enough to ask the question, they are already held responsible for finding out the answer.
Nerd42

A to Q:
The one we call Mother Nature

We always assume God will judge us. But won't the Devil judge us too.

There must be borderline cases whose destination is uncertain - leading to much wheeling and dealing between the two heavenly protagonists.

So you worship "Mother Nature" ? I never really understood that. Always seemed to me like a thing only supersticious primitives would do.

I don't worship anything or anyone. If I was meant to do that I would have been sent here with clearer instructions wouldn't I?
God being Mother Nature makes God female - that's all that implies.
It makes no sense to say that God is of the male gender.
Perhaps we humans should take a hint from R S Thomas (Welsh poet and priest) and refer to God more correctly as He'rm.

"Always seemed to me like a thing only supersticious primitives would do."



Y'know the way you *judge* (a sin by the way) these other people as "supersticious primitives"? Well guess how everyone else looks upon Christian Fundamentalists like yourself Nerd42? At least now you can put yourself in the shoes of normal people.

Why can't you be a real Christian and love thy neighbour?

Ste

"Y'know the way you *judge* (a sin by the way)"

Where are you getting that idea from? There is no basis for that idea that many Christians seem to have. It's just a popular doctrine.

"these other people as "supersticious primitives"?"

No, I said that the practice /seemed/ like something supersticious primitives would do. To worship the forces of nature themselves, seems to me like primitive superstision. I didn't actually call anyone anything. I'd be interested in hearing arguments to change that impression I have. Is there actually any intelligent reasoning behind worshiping the forces of nature? What brings people to the conclusion that nature is god? And why would that make god feminine?

"Well guess how everyone else looks upon Christian Fundamentalists like yourself Nerd42? At least now you can put yourself in the shoes of normal people."

In fact, over the past five years I've been on the internet almost every day researching that very topic. "How do other people treat and look upon Christian Fundamentalists?" One of these days I may publish a paper on the subject.

"Why can't you be a real Christian and love thy neighbour?"
Didn't say I couldn't. Just because someone has a primitive supersticious belief system doesn't mean I can't love them, even when I'm saying so.
Nerd42

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." -- your Messiah. So you can judge, but only if you're sinless. So, are you sinless?

Read my last post again. Particularly the part that said:
"Just because someone has a primitive supersticious belief system doesn't mean I can't love them, even when I'm saying so."
Nerd42

and nowhere in scripture does it say a Christian is only to judge if they are sinless. You are referring to a famous passage on forgiveness -- the woman caught in adultery - a sin - Christ then told her to go and sin no more. Christians are supposed to call people to repentance - I can lookup references on that if you like or you can just take my word for it and move on.
Nerd42

I won't take your word on it. But if someone else here with different view of the New Testament than yours is willing to agree with you, then I'm willing to take the two of you's words on it.

Fine. Take mine, and a Baptists: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns/fbns472.html
Nerd42

g00gle rulez

Did John 'Imagine there's no Heaven ...' Lennon go to Heaven or to the other place? I presume according to Christian doctrine he went to the latter. If that's true doesn't it make religion pointless?

It's always funny watching two religious people disagree about which of them has the best imaginary friend.

SoRB

"It's always funny watching two religious people disagree about which of them has the best imaginary friend."
And it's always funny hearing anti-religious espouse the virtues of tolerance.

"Did John 'Imagine there's no Heaven ...' Lennon go to Heaven or to the other place? I presume according to Christian doctrine he went to the latter. If that's true doesn't it make religion pointless?"
I'm sorry, I do not understand that paragraph at all. What are you talking about?
Nerd42

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New Zealand? It's a developed country here, you know...
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To some extent, that's true... as I understand it.
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Yes, indeed...
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True. I am a Christian Universalist, and I believe that *everyone* will eventually be saved, no matter how many lifetimes it takes...

You think so?

At what point?