h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I take your point. I think my other statement was correct: I am the ultimate pedant.

Gooday Joanna,

I've not previously heard the distinction made between 'classical' and 'Classical'. Food for thought, so off to do some research. But the Classical Period - 1750-1810 - does that mean, for instance, that the incomparable Ludwig van B sort of falls both within and without the Classical Period (and presumably into the Romantic or whatever)?

But generally it is a really interesting (to me anyway) issue. I mean, many of Mozart's compositions were the pop music of the eighteenth century; now we term them classical. Some of our modern songs and tunes will probably be described the same way in a hundred years time, if not before. Take care,

Walter

You're absolutely right about Beethoven, his early music is certainly classical, but then he developed into romantic music too...

Do you mean like the pop songs in the top twenty? I think there's always been a pop music culture; I think that todays pop music owes less in its heritage to Mozart and more to folk songs and folk singers of the past... the songs of the people who couldn't afford access to Mozart and co, bearing in mind that until the Romantic era concerts weren't so prevalent anyway... a lot of the time if you wanted to hear his piano works you had to learn to play piano and then buy a copy... or if you were wealthy you could employ a musician (an extreme example is the Esterhazy's patronage of Haydn)

But I think there's a neat split in the descendence of the folksong - during the 19th century there were lots of revolutions, a lot of composers produced nationalist music, which owed an awful lot to the individual styles of the folksongs in their countries. It happened in this country (UK) too with the likes of R Vaughan Williams a little later, but when they picked up a folksong they kind of integrated it into a classical style.
But the folksongs of the past also play a role that pop music does today- while it takes a lot of effort for a group of people to sing most classical choral works, everyone sings along to a popsong in the same way that they would have sang along to a folksong in the past, so some people are worried about the loss of the traditional tunes in our culture, which weren't classical to start with.

- ramble over now...

Gooday Joanna,

Hey that was no ramble, thank you very much for the fascinating insight. I guess when I was talking about Mozart, something like the 'Magic Flute' or Marriage of Figaro' comes to mind; they were not intended to be 'serious' but just sheer entertainment, and in that sense they were attuned to 'popular' culture of the day (at least that's how it was depicted in 'Amadeus'!). The term 'classic' is already widely used to describe any number of relatively recent songs. And I remember radio broadcasts in England that were called 'light' classical, which I assume was meant to convey some sort of popular connotation. One of my teachers once told me that if you could whistle the tune then it wasn't classical music! Take care,

Walter.

A lot of rock music has its roots in classical music. Beethoven could arguably claim some credit for boogie-woogie. It's there if you listen carefully, particularly in the the last movement of his 32nd piano sonata, and also in the Diabelli Variations (variation 16). Unfortunately most professional concert pianists will attempt to smooth the rhythms over to make is sound more.. er.. classical. In case you think I'm off my rocker, I believe Quincy Jones and Jools Holland share this view, so I'm in good company

I'm preparing a web site of piano music crafted into MIDI file format by my own fair hand, so for examples of evidence that Beethoven truly rocks, watch this space...

By the way, Joanna, just out of interest, what do you play?

Who was it that did that song with the chorus 'All together now, in no man's land'? If you listen to the chord sequence, its identical to the one used by Johann Pachabel in his Canon...

Oh, & is it just me, or can you hear the Oklahomaishness of one of the themes in the third Leonora overture?

I play flute & sing...

Heh heh. I gotcha topped, Joanna. I play the flute and the piano, and I also sing.

I play bassoon as well but don't normally think to list it since I don't have one atm... I've had piano lessons, but I'm no good... but have you played bass Domra?

No, I have no experience with the Domra. The strangest instrument I've ever played is the digeridoo. I've also had the honor of playing several harpsichords. After that, I'm afraid I've had a rather boring musical career.

Harpsichords are cool IMO, d'you have opinions about whether Bach should be played on piano or harpsichord?

For some reason our school had a Russian music group, so I played bass domra for a bit... My friend plays contrabass balalaika, thats one of the scariest instruments.... its soooo big...

I seem to stink at most stringed instruments.

Bach should definitely be played on the harpsichord. Its more acoustic tenor is better suited for his use of syncopation.

A good article and an informative forum!
As a (now unemployed) music teacher (flute, clarinet all the recorders, and piano) I am always pleased to find a discussion like this.
I can see why you wanted to write about Prokofiev now Joanna
Don't you just love his use of the Flute in Romeo and Juliet... a far superior piece to Tschaikowsky's IMHO.
I would disagree with the teacher who said that if you can whistle it, it's not 'classical' though! Ave Maria, for example, can be whistled very easily, and I always knew when my dad was biking home from work as I could hear him whistling Bach organ music all the way down the street!
Sorry to have barged in... do please continue
shazzPRME

I keep meaning to have another go at his flute sonata (hehehe the one on the grade 8 syllabus )

I don't know about whistling classical music - if you can whitle the tune, it doesn't stop the piece from being classical, IMO, but whistling the tune from classical music isn't classical music in itself...

Most definately not! It then converts the 'classical' piece into 'popular' music without the hard work of re-writing the whole thing.
I think that I prefer the Poulenc from the grade 8 syllabus! The second movement is divine!
shazzPRME

Is that the 'Cantilena' one? I didn't like that... but then again I don't like most hard music from list B...

...there was one of the studies, though, that I am going to learn if it kills me.. no. 76 from 76 graded classical studies for flute.. know it?

*feels the need to go offline & do flute practice for the first time in 2 months*

Yes... the Cantilena
Is that the Kohler study? I've forgotten already! I just love all of Kohler's studies
shazzPRME

I like Kohler too... but this one's by Theobald Boehm. Not the one in goodness knows how many flats, the other, manic one.

Heh. It sounds like h2g2 needs a Musician's Guild.

We do... want to start one? There's lots of musicians....

I would like to. How do you begin?