A Conversation for Tax

Income Tax - a temporary measure!

Post 1

Kes

A historical footnote:

The U.K. Parliament introduced Income Tax in the early 1800s purely as a "temporary measure" to cover the cost of fighting Napoleon.

See also "honest politicians" (if you can find the entry!)


Income Tax - a temporary measure!

Post 2

Brussels Sprout

My understanding (albeit limited) is that VAT was also introduced as a 'temporary' tax.

Politicians rely on people having too-short memories. Not to mention sitting in opposition and saying X is dreadful, it is unacceptable legislation, blah, blah, blah. Once in power X becomes completely acceptable because... We're in charge and we don't have to give you a reason.


Income Tax - a temporary measure!

Post 3

Is mise Duncan

Or "we're merely implementing the changes set in place by the previous government" which is as silliy a brush off as you're likely to get. This seems to be the whole deal with IR35 which is too involved for me to deal with here but is a factor in my shutting down my UK company and opening an Irish one instead...see http://www.shout99.com for more if you will smiley - winkeye


Income Tax - a temporary measure!

Post 4

Brussels Sprout

I know about IR35.... But now I live in Belgium.


Income Tax - a disgrace

Post 5

Shorn Canary ~^~^~ sign the petition to save the albatrosses

I have to say this somewhere and this seems like a good forum for this gripe. There was a story on the news this morning (16/10/00), about some poor lorry driver who was being pursued by the Inland Revenue for £11,000. Four years ago they gave him a rebate because he spent less than 90 days per annum in GB. Now, four years later they're regretting having brought this 90 day rule to the attention of lorry drivers because so many have now applied for a rebate, so to solve the problem of having to give all these people back the money they earned and were wrongly charged, they've moved the goal posts - and back dated the moving of the goal posts. They've now decided that days of arrival and departure which previously didn't count as days in residence, now do count as days in residence. So this poor so and so whom the IR invited to apply for a refund has to find £11,000 - money they say he owes them for this back-dated piece of jiggery pokery they've carried out.

Unbelievable! And do you suppose this man or others like him have any redress? Well, no they don't. It seems that the IR can make up the rules as they go along and we all just have to bend over and take it (if you'll excuse the expression).

I think we should be more like the Americans when it comes to kicking up a fuss about our taxes.

Sorry. Had to get it off my chest.


Income Tax - a disgrace

Post 6

Is mise Duncan

Unfortunately, as IR35 (see www.shout99.com for details) shows, the IR can change the rules mid stream if it doesn't suit them.

However, the 90 day tax rule applies if you are in a dual-taxation situation; i.e. you are paying tax in another country with which the UK has a dual taxation treaty. (In practice most countries have either directly or through treaties with the EU). The lorry driver was badly advised and was responsible for checking the advise given to him...his failure to do so has probably contributed to this situation.
The reason that this back dated nonsense can occur is that taxation law, like most UK law, is case-based. Thus if the IR challenge a person in court and win the case, the basis for that victory becomes law.


Income Tax - a disgrace

Post 7

Shorn Canary ~^~^~ sign the petition to save the albatrosses

I'm sure your understanding of these things is far deeper and wider than mine, so excuse my ignorance if you spot any.

The point about this lorry driver was that it was actually the Inland Revenue that suggested he apply for the rebate and it wasn't until four years later that they changed their minds. Bear in mind that this is just an ordinary Jo. He's a lorry driver. He's working away from home most of the time. He had no reason to believe that the Inland Revenue wouldn't understand about income tax. He didn't know that he needed to employ an expert to tell him whether the IR might be wrong. And back when they invited him to apply for a rebate (according the news item at least) it wasn't wrong. If he'd paid someone to advise him back then, they probably would have told him the same thing. The rules changed later making the advice wrong in retrospect, so to speak.

As you can probably tell, I think it's disgusting the way the IR can treat people who are innocent of any crime. If they believe that a person is guilty then it's up to the person to prove they're not. It seems the law is different where the IR is concerned. You can forget all about being innocent until proven guilty. I'll go and have a look at that web site you gave.

One reason I sympathise with the lorry driver is that the IR make themselves out to be cute and cuddly and only there to help - and it simply isn't true. I expect you've seen the adverts. When I was self employed I was in the first bunch of guinea pigs for the new tax system. I spent a lot of time trying to work out what information was required from their rotten instructions (enough instructions to fill a telephone directory but less interesting) I had to phone the IR helpline for information that was missing or badly expressed in their instructions and filled my return in wrongly based on their verbal instructions. Because of that, I had to do the whole thing again. I was given no choice. I couldn't just correct the bit that was wrong. And that's how they treat you when you're doing them a favour - unpaid and time consuming favour. I could spit!

Sorry. There I go again.


Tax System - an oxymoron?

Post 8

Is mise Duncan

I have just discovered that over here (Ireland) business accounts are subject to tax on all sorts of odd things. For example, there's a £3.50 tax on issuing a cheque book.


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