A Conversation for Oahu, Hawaii, USA - The Gathering Place
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Island Gyrl Started conversation May 17, 2001
It should also be mentioned that from the point of view of the
Hawaiians -- who had their own internationally-recognised fully
independent country before Amerigons demolished it to build
a hyperspatial military crossroads of the Pacific -- it is their
dwindling native culture that is the source of the harmony, and
the flare-ups are due to visitors insensitively wiping various
body parts on their stolen sacred "towel" (the archipelago).
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted May 19, 2001
It is only the current state of affairs that I wished to report in this article. One on its history would be most welcome, but I am currently unqualified for the task.
And currently, the native Hawaiians make up a minority among a host of minorities. The rest of the minorities are perfectly content to remain a part of the United States, and welcome the "hyperspatial military crossroads", which is the backbone of the economy of the islands, ahead of tourism. It is only local Hawaiians who tear through town assaulting people who had done nothing wrong, selecting their victims on the basis of race and/or employment.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Island Gyrl Posted May 19, 2001
Unpleasant racially-motivated incidents can occur everywhere, even
in England and elsewhere in Europe. Such sweeping generalisations
as the preceding -- not to say the bad attitude they betray towards
a peaceful, friendly nation whose independence Britain pledged by
treaty to respect in 1843 -- seem a bit like, well, Enoch Powell
in reverse.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted May 20, 2001
I'm not making sweeping generalizations, I'm reporting facts. Every so often, a rampage of violence runs through Honolulu. Young males gang up on unsuspecting pedestrians. Every time this occurred while I lived there (4 times in 4.5 years), the perpetrators were described as native Hawaiians. Their victims were most often white males from the military, but they did not limit themselves to this. Tourists of white or Japanese origin are also potential targets.
As you said, racial flare-ups can occur anywhere, and this includes Oahu. This article gives people tips and information they might want to know before venturing there... this bit of info is also helpful.
And now, if you're quite finished flaming me, you can go away. I really don't care to be involved in your personal vendetta with the United States.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Island Gyrl Posted May 21, 2001
You seem tense. Relax and have a cup of tea or something. We're
just discussing history and so on here. Sure, Hawai`i was annexed
against the will of its people. But Honolulu isn't Grozny or
Northern Ireland -- one might compare it to Lhasa, with all the
tourists. Enter dominant culture of invaders, wielding blessings
of modernity. Exit original culture, pursued by a bear.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
furtim - Zaphodista Sympathiser Posted Aug 20, 2001
And good riddance to the Native Hawaiians! Their food sucks, and their language doesn't have enough vowels!
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
furtim - Zaphodista Sympathiser Posted Aug 20, 2001
Whoops. I meant "consonants", not "vowels". It's common (all too common, if you ask me) for Hawaiian words to have as many as three or four vowels between consonants. The lack of hard sounds makes me ill.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
trillianette Posted Aug 27, 2001
Colonel Sellers is right. Many (of the few) native Hawaiians want to become independent of the US. Some of them want to make it so that only people with Hawaiian blood in them can vote. They are obviously to naive to figure out that without the US they, as a country, would not survive for very long. Not to offend Hawaiians, I love Hawaii, but it is the truth.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Einauni Muznobotti Posted Aug 31, 2001
Okay ... Island Gyrl, I am interested in what you have to say. Please tell more.
Colonel Sellers: Island Gyrl is not flaming you. She's telling it like she sees it, and I see it the same way. What the Americans did to the Hawaiians is really a bad thing. The Hawaiians never needed them. They were able to exist perfectly well for hundreds of years on their own without any Americans. They were fully able to survive on their own. They did have a peaceful culture and a high quality of life, as far as I'm aware of. Their culture was severely disrupted by the Americans. What are the Americans doing there anyways? The same thing as the Chinese are doing in Tibet. They're destroying a culture and a people for the sake of their own gain. Would you blame Tibetans for reacting with violence against the Chinese? Would you blame black South Africans for having reacted violently against the whites who oppressed them? The thing is ... when you treat people like s**t then you can't act all offended when they rebel against such treatment. As a person who's always been a member of a dominant culture you may be entirely unaware how deeply traumatising it is to belong to a culture that has been trivialized in is own native country.
That's the way I see it. I'm sitting on the opposite side of the world from Hawaii ... but still, I care about what happens there.
And furtim, just where do you get off saying that an entire language makes you ill? I'm sorry ... that is just nasty, pure and plain. Your lack of consideration makes ME ill.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Sep 1, 2001
Einauni: The past is the past, as I like to say. The Americans seized the islands because they provided an invaluable crossroads to the rest of the Pacific, their territory in the Philippines and Guam in particular. It was not just, but it is over.
Since that time, lots of property has been turned over to the natives, and some reparations have been made. However, there is an awful lot of history between the time the US took over the island, and today. Workers were imported from all over the Pacific Rim in order to build the economy into what it is today. Now, the islands are populated by a host of minorities, with no group being in the majority (and this includes the natives). Portugese, Philippino, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Caucasian, and Hawaiian peoples all live together in a harmony that serves as an example to the world. Most people born there are multi-racial.
This mixture is not only a pleasant example of harmony, but it is also the basis of the current Hawaiian standard of living. Without all the imported labor, there would be no economy. I'm sure the natives don't want to reduce the current infrastructure to rubble, and go back to gathering coconuts, and fishing from outriggers. They enjoy the benefits of modern civilization. They have an equal voice in their government. They have the legacy of a rich culture that is rigorously preserved... unlike Cornish, Hawaiian still exists as a language, is still taught. In fact, that language is often incorporated into daily life... trash cans thank you with a "mahalo," bumper stickers remind you to "drive with aloha," and I've found the word "kine" to be so completely useful that I've taught it to my friends and family, so they understand me when I use it in my daily life.
The independence movement seems to me to be contrary to everything Hawaii stands for, and I hate it. The Hawaiians have no right to try to kick people off the island, because that is like visiting the sins of the father onto the sons. The reality of Hawaii is that it is a host of minorities, all working together in harmony, embracing the ideals of the original culture, which are very good. It's a shame that so many of the locals are forgetting their cultural heritage, when everyone else who comes to work and live there embraces it wholeheartedly. The spirit of aloha is in danger of being destroyed by the very people who created it.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Einauni Muznobotti Posted Sep 2, 2001
Okay, I got that. I'd still like to hear from someone with the opposite perspective ... someone of the native heritage who believes it's been trivialised and abused. Pity, it seems Island Gyrl isn't here any more.
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
Researcher 192646 Posted Apr 14, 2002
I can see Island Gyrl's point and the Colonel's. I just moved to Kailua about 6 months ago. The ethnic diversity here on the Big Island (Hawaii) is amazing.
Based on what friends had told me on the mainland who either were stationed here in the military or who lived on the island of Oahu I was prepared to be disliked by the native Hawaiians (however this was a price I was willing to pay to live in such an amazing place).
To my shock I found that the Hawaiians were the nicest of all the people I have had the pleasure of meeting. It is some of the other haoles (like myself) that I think forgot to leave some of their baggage back on the mainland (or wasteland as I now call it). Although note that this is still a SMALL number of people compared to the mainland...I have only encountered a few unpleasant people out of hundreds...try that in New York or Los Angeles
I was alarmed to learn of the local movements for a unified and "free" Hawaii. I had never heard of such a thing until I arrived and saw a demonstration on the beach by my house. I can see the point of the people behind the movement, but I think their efforts will equate to a waste of their time and energy. What happened to the native Hawaiians, albiet a very unjust thing, happened a long time ago. This is not South Africa or Tibet...that is a horrible comparison, and I think one should visit Hawaii before making such a statement. The Hawaiians were never enslaved or treated cruely by the Americans (not to any knowledge of mine, and I think I would have heard about that at the liberation demonstration). I don't think people were slaughtered and land was "conquered"...some very shady politics indeed, but it is minor when compared to what happened to the Native Americans.
The Hawaiians first embraced explorers who visited the islands...the native people of Hawaii always seemed interested and intrigued by their foreign visitors (even though their leaders did not like the change in attitude and religion it brought). Like the Colonel said, I think for Hawaiians to be rude and disrespectful of people of other races and cultures goes against the very fiber of "living Aloha", and I think this is why it is a rare isolated occurence. I mean one racial outbreak per year in a city of nearly a million people is pretty impressive when compared to Los Angeles (which probably has a couple per day!).
As I said in the beginning though...none of this really happens on the "Big Island"...so maybe the people here are a little more relaxed with all this real estate to play in...not quite so cramped I guess. We plenty of stress from the two volcanos that are due to explode at any moment
Aloha,
Craig
Key: Complain about this post
Footnote 1 -- Flare-ups
- 1: Island Gyrl (May 17, 2001)
- 2: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (May 19, 2001)
- 3: Island Gyrl (May 19, 2001)
- 4: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (May 20, 2001)
- 5: Island Gyrl (May 21, 2001)
- 6: furtim - Zaphodista Sympathiser (Aug 20, 2001)
- 7: furtim - Zaphodista Sympathiser (Aug 20, 2001)
- 8: trillianette (Aug 27, 2001)
- 9: Einauni Muznobotti (Aug 31, 2001)
- 10: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Sep 1, 2001)
- 11: Einauni Muznobotti (Sep 2, 2001)
- 12: Researcher 192646 (Apr 14, 2002)
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