h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Er, I think i'd like to bring up the fact that Polygamy was banned from the church because Utah wanted to become a state.

There was no religious reason there.

It wasn't just banned because Deseret (Utah) wanted to become a state, but also because Brigham Young was a Polygamist and so could have been arrested and jailed + this would have been bad for the church.

At the time, however, I believe Utah was a territory, and it was legal, and would be until becoming a state...

But my point was that there is nothing religious about the Mormon belief in polytheism.

~Sirona

Um, considering the subject of this thread, and what you've said elsewhere, shouldn't that be "polygamy," not "polytheism"? (And while I'm being picky, the correct term is "polygyny"="many wives." "Polygamy" just means "many spouses," and I doubt that many early mormons practiced polyandry ("many husbands"))

Sirona,
You made a reference to polytheism. Were you refering to the mormon belief in Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit as seperate entities, or was this a typo of some form, or was it neither?

It was interesting to see the mistake of using "polytheism" for "polygamy" in the previous entries because it brings up a tenant of Mormonism that differs from mainstream Christianity. It is my understanding that Mormonism is a polytheistic religion. The god of the Bible (and Book of Mormon) is the god of this world, and there are other deities. Also, Mormonism theology encourages a progression through life and the afterlife which can eventually lead to "godhood" for us mortals.

"Mormonism" is not polytheistic. We worship God, the Eternal Father and pray to him in the Name of Jesus as was taught in the Bible. There are no other dieties to worship. Our first article of Faith states: We believe in God the Eternal Father and in his son, Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost.

Whether Utah wanted to become a state or not does not make a great deal of difference.
I would like to point out that members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" are law abiding and God fearing people just like most of us.
Within the religion they have a 12 Article guide to living more righteously and more God like. One of these guides called "The 12 Articles of Faith" state

We believe in being subject to Kings, Presidents, Rulers and Magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the Law.

Therefore...if the law states that the practise of more than one wife is to stop, then this is what shall happen.
Most people that argue about the Mormon religion always bring up the point of Polygamy. This is because it is the easiest subject to argue about and create a topic. Whether people believe it or not...stop to think about one thing.
Why does God allow the birth of females to out number the birth of Males?
Surely this is evidence that in a world that God created and rules over, it is clear that Gods plan is to allow the marriage of several women to one man.
It is guaranteed that someone will introduce into the topic scientific research and try to prove that it is all to do with science, Mother Nature and Hormones. But at the end of the day, if God created man then is it not more reasonable to believe that whatever happens in life, it is because God wants it that way.
Ponder that one and feel the need to research more, don't always go on what man himself states as fact because quite often fact can become fiction.

I did make a mild error...There are 13 Articles of Faith and not 12 as I mentioned in the above reply.
Apologies...

But the Bible clearly states that a man should have only one wife.

<"Mormonism" is not polytheistic. We worship God, the Eternal Father and pray to him in the Name of Jesus as was taught in the Bible. There are no other dieties to worship. Our first article of Faith states: We believe in God the Eternal Father and in his son, Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost.>

Since you believe (as do I) that God is eternal, how do you also believe (as Joseph Smith stated) that 'as man now is, God once was'?
And since Joseph went on to say that men could become gods and eventually create their own worlds, that this chain can go on forever and that God was simply another link in the chain, how do you simultaneously believe that 'there are no other dieties to worship'?

Because at this time, for us on this earth, there are no other deities to worship!

Brigham Young was not scared of being jailed because he may or may not have had more than one wife. If he had more than one wife it was because he was following Gods directive. If he did not have more than one wife, then it was because he was following the laws of the land in which case he was following Gods directive. Here is that directive:
THE 13 ARTICLES of FAITH, (One of them state):
We believe in Kings, Presidents, Rulers and Magistrates, in obeying, honouring and sustaining the law.
Therefore, Brigram Young being scared of imprisonment is a false accusation. He followed Gods word and that meant obeying the laws of the land. The laws of the land arose when jealous men within the law didn't like the fact that these people, (Mormons) were taking all the women in a small, not very populated area and marrying them. So jealous men made the laws, banned the practise and in actual fact went against Gods plan. How did this arise? How do you think, SATAN was at work, always has been, always will be... REMEMBER, SATAN does not do evil, man does evil, SATAN tempts and man does...
I REST MY CASE... incidentally, I do not preach, I tell how it is. If you want to know for yourself, I challenge you to get a Book of Mormon and read it. Then visit this site and ask the very same questions as you have been doing.

Uhh... Brigham Young was already dead when the church gave up polygamy. It was a little later. Just to be exact, it was the 1890 "Manifesto" by Wilford Woodruff that officially ended polyandrous practices for members of the church wishing to remain in good standing.

By the way, I'm back in this discussion forum after several years' absence. I can't remember why "Researcher ###" appears as my name instead of my log-in name. Can anyone help me out?

It might help to have what President Wilfred Woodruff actually said regarding the proclamation:

"The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .


I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. "

Or to paraphrase:
'It doesn't matter that God has always said it was wrong - now some men are trying to stop us, so we'll stop.'

Mormons get a lot of stuff right, but they clearly are not true Christians, as they stand in such stark contrast to Acts 5:29, "We must obey God as ruler rather than men."

You don't seem to have understood what Wilfred Woodfruff said.

The LORD gave the commandmemnt to practice polygamy. He did not say it was wrong but was needed at the time. However the "world" judged differently and had the Lord showed Wilfred Woodruff what would have happened if the practice continued. Therefore WW could see that it was better at this time to cease the practice - the Lord's commandment was to comply with the laws of the land and be subject to Kings, rulers etc..

The commandment to cease came from God not from man. WW was also stating that if God had commanded that the practice continue he would have done so, and suffered whatever consequences "man" threw at him and the Church.

More generally Abraham was a great prophet, the Father of the Jews. He had 4 wives. Solomon had many more. Are they considered evil? I think not.

The idea was also raised and seriously debated in the UK after the WW1 when a generation of young men were wiped out. A similar situation existed in the pioneer times. There were many more women than men and the commandement was give for the women were taken as wives for many reasons, not least for safety and protection in a harsh environment. That may seem incomprehensible to today's liberated and independent women, but back in th 1850s in thw "Wild West" things were rather different from today.

I only remembered Abraham being married to Sarah and Hagar. Who were the other two? He only married Hagar because Sarah was infertile, and God never showed approval of his multiple marriage. And it caused many problems for his household.

The Bible also records the story of Elkanah, who was the father of Samuel the prophet, and Elkanah's two wives, Hannah and Peninnah. Hannah was treated so unkindly by Peninnah that she would often cry and lose her appetite. Peninnah, for her part, was apparently jealous because Elkanah showed more love for Hannah.

1 Timothy 3:2 - "The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife"
Why would the congregation overseers be directed to only have one wife unless the congregation were to follow?

When God created Adam, what standard did he set for him?

God tolerated polygamy in the period of the old testament, but he never suggested it or expressed approval of it, and since the coming of Jesus, Gods standard has been made quite clear; As 1 Corinthians 7:2 says, a man should have his own wife and a woman should have her own husband - not haing to share with anyone.

You are correct. It was four children Abraham had. However he dis still have TWO wives! As it tunred out Sarai was NOT barren as she did bear Isaac.

The Lord does not "tolerate" or excuse any sin and allow that person exaltation. Therefore at the time the polygamy was practice it was lawful, or commandeded, by the Lord.

The marriage of a husband to two or more living wives. It is lawful for a man to have only one wife, unless the Lord commands otherwise by revelation (Jacob 2: 27-30). By revelation, plural marriage was practiced in Old Testament times and in the early days of the restored Church by the direction of the prophet who held the priesthood keys (D&C 132: 34-40, 45). It is no longer practiced in the Church (D&C OD-1); today, having more than one wife is incompatible with membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

But Solomon certainly disobeyed the commandment in Deuteronomy 17:17, that the king must not multiply wives for himself, that his heart may not turn aside. Solomon did multiply wives for himself, and his heart did turn aside from serving God.


But she and Abraham believed she was, and that is still the only reason that Abraham took Hagar as his wife, thinking that Abrahams seed could come through her. And the fact that God still caused that seed to come through Sarah showed that Abrahams marriage to Hagar had not been God's plan.

In what scripture did God ever command a polygamous passage?
The fact that it happened doesn't imply that God approved of it, much less that he commanded it.

Simply put Abraham now sits at the right hand of God. He had two wives. He could not sit at the right hand of God if God disapproved or if it was a sin, reagrdless of whether they thought Sarai was barren or not.

Further,the passage from Jacob (in the Book of Mormon, which the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints accepts as scripture)indicates that at times the Lord does command it.

This was the case when it was instituted in the middle of the 19th Century.