h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Does tagging (i.e. scribbling a stylized label one has though up using a thick black marker) count as a creatvie outlet?

I have seen some truly imrpressive graffiti works but I find myself approaching them as I would a piece of art in a museum. What is it that one looks for to appreciate truly good graffitti?

As an ex-Fine Art Auctioneer, tagging is not an artform. It's just an irritating waste of my time, as it usually takes me about an hour to clean it off my van on a Monday morning.

You will perhaps find better reactions from other users with the phrase 'in my opinion...tagging is not an artform'.

I am not entirely sure why you assume because you have a degree/experience in the field of fine art, this makes you qualified to comment on supposed 'anti-art' - if anything, this experience makes you less qualified as you are blinded by your experience, which has formed your opinions of what 'art' is. Fine art is merely one area of Art as a whole.

Now I am not for a second suggesting a 'tag' - or graffiti writer's signature - shows the same mastery, technique or thought as a piece of Fine art - nor am I suggesting that a 17 year old art student knows more than yourself.

However, the ignorance you portrayed in your last post surely makes you deserving of the 'tags' you have to clean off your van in the morning?

Graffiti 'art' (I use this term loosely - the correct term, orgiginating from the pioneers - is Graffiti 'writing') was born from the loose scribbles on subway cars around New York City.

The media has singled out one kid - 'Taki 183' - as THE original 'tagger'. There is some debate as to whether this is correct, as a few kids claim it was they who were the pioneers.
His tag was made up of his real name, demetrius, in greek - 'Taki'. 183 was 183rd street, where he lived in New York.
He worked as a messenger, delivering parcels etc around the city, so frequently he used the subway system.
Without delving too deeply into the story, he began to write his pseudonym and other kids quickly caught on. Many followed his example of writing their nicknames and street.
Soon they discovered spray paint, and shortly afterwards that by taking the nozzles from household aerosol products they could get different thicknesses of line. Someone then made their letters thicker, with a 'fatcap' nozzle, and put an outline around it.
Soon this caught on - more and more colours were used, different outlines, fade techniques. But all this time the work was based on a writer's 'tag' - his name, or signature.
Writers would use this to sign their pieces - but the concept of 'getting your name up' was still strong. The aim was to become 'All city' - pieces and tags on every subway line in the city.

Graffiti writing has never lost the 'Tagging' side of things it started from.
While some believe it should have moved on, as the beauty to which the more 'artistic' side of writing has ascended to is far beyond toilet scribbles, most believe it is a valued part of the 'culture'. We cannot abandon our roots: nor can we push them much further than these supposed 'scribbles'. But the aestheic of a calligraphic, swiftly executed (a lot of the energy of the art created is spawned from the movement involved in producing it)and balanced 'tag', is (in my opinion) an 'artform' regardless of the opinions of fine art practioners and historians.

Further information:

http://www.artcrimes.com - the biggest graffiti website in the world.

'Stylewars' documentary by Henry Chalfant - available from http://www.Amazon.co.uk

'Subway art' and 'Spraycan art' books by Henry Chalfant - also available from Amazon. ESSENTIAL READING, documents 'most' of the origins of graffiti.

and finally, me: http://www.ache2.tk (hasn't been updated for a while) and http://www.fotolog.net/ache2

thanks for reading!

ache2, graffiti nobody.