h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am rather shocked by the blindness of western people!
I believe some people knows the fact of the Tibet issue, but most of people are guided by the medias who always want to deliver breaking news to catch eyes - sad modern media!
How many you western people have ever been to China and its Tibet area? How can you say this and that just by imagination? So many so called news are quoted from here and there, but who sees the fact in person?
Dalai Lama is nothing but a tool used/utilized by anti-China groups.
Please note that China will never be separated again - we Chinese all remember the sad days in early 1900s when westerners invaded China, that will never happen again.
If you will say my remarks look like nationalism words, sorry, I will have to say that I was not a nationalist UNTILL I became so shocked by western media's irresponsible reports.
Please do not use your standard to judge everything, western standard is not everything.
I never forget the sad era when the UK invaders shipped Opium to China and made Chinese already impoverished peasants take and then lost everything. Did you westerners always possess the highland of virtue?

Traveller in Time not sure
"I have not been to China or Tibet I do not speek the languages myself so it is indeed difficult to know what is really going on.

One thing I noticed the other day: the Chinese government commenting on the tour of the olympic flame. For what I hear see and understand there have been some protests during this tour. In france the flame had to be relit several times. The protests were that violent the route had to be changed during the american part of it, many people waited on the original and apparently wrong route as the local police decided the tour had to be rerouted.

Cinese authorities commenting: The tour drew a lot of spectators and supporters all over the world.

If the chinese bring all the news and events with such accuracy I have my doubts about Tibet. "

You are having a right attitude.
Yes, you can doubt, even me always doubt what the government said.
But, you can not say "Chinese government is repressing Tibetan", right? Some reporters went beyond doubt - they were making fiction novels.

United Nations:

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/AsiaRegion/Pages/CNIndex.aspx

Human Rights Watch:

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/04/03/china18420.htm

Amnetsy International:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/what-human-rights-legacy-beijing-olympics-20080401

Please do NOT quote here, quote there any more!
Materials on the Internet are mostly garbages quoted from each other.
Where is your own facts?

Looks good to me

For the last couple of weeks a lot of chinese people have been using the Dalai Lama's name to say stuff on here I wish they should let him talk for himself

However, the western world have not been letting Dalai say for himself
They have been funding him and requesting him say words in favorite of westerners.

Really?

And you will of course be able to back up that assertion with proof?

China, as we all know, is a large place. Do you live in or near Tibet? Where do you receive *your* information about the situation in Tibet?

Let's just free all the chinese people

>>Let's just free all the chinese people <<
freedom is not given by others, just is fighting for our own. USA and British let Iraq free,so there are too "free".haha

So they too are free,

So when are you going to start fighting for your own freedom ? or are you going to let the rest of the world show you what we think of your torch of peace and freedom (cause that is what it represents)really means

Hey Blackglod /Blackgold feels better ,I have wanted to ask you since you first came on here ,Where in that big bad nasty country (USA)did you study english ?

>>So when are you going to start fighting for your own freedom ? or are you going to let the rest of the world show you what we think of your torch of peace and freedom (cause that is what it represents)really means <<
for a long time(sinec 1911) we have been fithting for freedom. freedom need peace rich and legal.freedom make you do what you want to do but cann't do illegal or do haim to others.

>>Hey Blackglod /Blackgold feels better ,I have wanted to ask you since you first came on here ,Where in that big bad nasty country (USA)did you study english ?<<
in China(inculuding Tibet),we bigan to study english at junior school about ten years ago.now they study english at primary school . i don't like to learn english,so my english is very pooor.

do you know the contents of Dalai Lama's "middle road"?
do you believe Dalai Lama don't want to let Tibet independent? thank you

1.
Please note that China will never be separated again
_____________________________________________________

Agreed, so long as it is not stolen land.
And Tibet and Xinjiang are stolen lands.


2.
- we Chinese all remember the sad days in early 1900s when westerners invaded China, that will never happen again.
_____________________________________________________

Tibetans too remember the sad days when their land was stolen by the chinese.

3.
Dalai Lama is nothing but a tool used/utilized by anti-China groups.
______________________________________________

No, you are the tool of the communist chinese terrorist state.

4.
I will have to say that I was not a nationalist UNTILL I became so shocked by western media's irresponsible reports.
___________________________

You will be more shocked when china is free and you know the truth.

5.
Please do not use your standard to judge everything, western standard is not everything.
__________________________________________

Western standard is the only civilized standard that humans have.

6.
I never forget the sad era when the UK invaders shipped Opium to China and made Chinese already impoverished peasants take and then lost everything.
________________________

No, we did not. But is the chinese solution to what happened over a hundred years to poisoned goods to the west? chinese peasants are imnpoverished because of they lack the freedom to rebel against the Peking tyranny.

7.
Did you westerners always possess the highland of virtue?
_____________________

No. But when we did not and realised we did not, we admitted our failings and tried to improve.

When Britain realized their follies in the colonies, they gave them up. US gave up slavery, and then took action towards eliminatingt discrimination.


You can not say the same of china.

chins has not yet given up its colonies (Tibet, Xinjiang,...),
and still practices slavery (brick kilns).

==> Agreed, so long as it is not stolen land.
And Tibet and Xinjiang are stolen lands.<==

If you knew nothing about China history, please listen to me carefully:
1. Xinjiang was already part of China during Tang Dynasty (AD600), Han Chinese were there and set counties in the area.
2. Tibet was China territory from Yuan Dynasty (AD1200). During late Qing Dynasty (AD1800-1900) it was separated by Western Powers, because they wanted expand their occupations beyond India.

If you say they were stolen, how can you justify the territory of USA, should the white people get out of the American land and return it to Indians? It happened in AD1500-1700, much much later than Chinese claimed sovereignty over Tibet and Xinjiang, right? You are having a Robber's Logic - robbers became 'gentleman' and continue to made his favorable rule over the world.

Voting result of USA people? It is only a tool to hide your bloodiness. If today's Tibetans are far far less than Han Chinese in Tibet, the vote result will also say favorite of Chinese, can you accept that? Hey, then you will say that Chinese people are invading Tibet so that there are more Han Chinese than Tibetan.

But do you know why today in Tibet Han Chinese are far less than Tibetans? That was because we are treating Tibetan too well, and protecting their original culture. Not the way you western robbers invaded North and Latin Americas.

It's true that indigenous people have suffered at the hands of several Western countries, including USA, Canada and Australia. These countries are all coming to terms in various ways with what they acknowledge to be crimes against the original occupants of the land. This is not to say that the faltering steps towards justice and reconciliation are satisfactory or compensate for generations of oppression and abuse. On the other hand, it is simply stupid to point to the crimes of Western countries to justify the oppression of Tibetans.

>> Western standard is the only civilized standard that humans have. <<
Let me guide you through stories so that you will know how do we view your standard (dual-standard in favor of western world):

China started to apply 'One Child' policy in 1980s which controls birth rate - you westerners blamed China for depriving people's human right of giving birth freely.
Now with China economy booming and consuming much more the world's energy and food - you westerners are blaming China for swallowing the world's resources too much and contributing to world's high oil prices.
So what do you really want us do??? The best way - under your evil standard is like below:
1) Chinese government should give its people the liberty and human right of giving birth to whatever number of children they want;
2) However, when it comes to world energy competition, Chinese people should constrain themselves and give up more resource to western world
Is that the evil standard you are proud of???

Now that since we stuck to our own way, we have successfully applied 'One Child Policy' and constrained our population to be within 1.3 billion; if we listened to you in 1980s, today China populations would have exceeded 1.6 billion, oil price would have exceeded $200/b. You would have to pay much more money to fill up your 4.0 liter car to the site to protest against China for human right abusing.

With less population, our kid can receive better nutrition, better education, then better understand the democracy principles, better understand how a modern voter should do, how to compete with others while respect to the order and your competitor, thus go on a way of democracy oriented.

However, if we had listened to you, we would have had more kids (let's say 3) in one family, and we restrain ourselves to consume resources. Then they would have to share one bowl, they cannot go to school to learn the modern knowledges, democracy principles, they dropped the school and wandering in the street. They will become nothing. The the westerner come and say: hey, Mr. Humble and Impoverished, the reason you are poor because you lack the liberty! However, actually, the answer is simple, they are poor because too many mouths compete limited resources.

So what do you really want us do???
__________________________________________

1.
Treat human beings as human beings, not like herds of cattle.

2.
Give ALL the citizens of china the freedom of expression, freedom
of thought, freedom of religion, and freedom of movement in
any part of the country

3.
Do not allow your government to hide from criticism and from
press, where ever they may be from

4.
Give citizens reproductive freedoms. Reproductive freedom coupled with freedoms discussed above will take care of the population "problem". There is absolutely no need for the chinese communist government to interfere in the bedroom or have its hands on every one's crotch.

5.
Give the citizens the right to VOTE so they can throw the rascals oput whenever there is a public sentiment for it.

6.
Treat all citizens with equality. The Mongols, the Manchus, and even the subjects from Tibet and Xinjiang with the respect that is due any human being. Let them be part of china because they want to, and not because they are prisoners of china.

7.
Give all ethnic minorities the freedom to choose whom they are governed by, and even to secede if they so desire.

8.
Give up extra-territorial claims merely because the people elsewhere resemble the chinese superficially.


I could go on and on. These are basic freedoms that people enjoy in the west.

There is no special "chinese" brand of human rights. Those rights as we all know are the ones which were developed in the west based on experience which, in the past might have been brutal.