A Conversation for Who Was Mohammed?

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Post 1

Rev Nick { Only the dead are without fear }

And I am glad that I could be a small bit of help. It reads well, and provides a simple and clear historic picture ... without all of the theological clutter. (My less bothersome twist of that phrase smiley - winkeye)

Well done, mate.


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Post 2

swl

smiley - cheersNick. Thanks for your help, and thanks to all the others who helped keep it on the straight & narrow smiley - bubbly


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Post 3

Sho - gainfully employed again

SWL - that is a great place to start learning about Islam.

smiley - applause


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Post 4

h5ringer

smiley - towelA timely and informative Entry. Excellent work, well done smiley - applause


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Post 5

openthinker

smiley - teasmiley - smileysmiley - smileyDear friend,

This write up about Mohammed is mix of false.Like Muhammed dreamed, actually he was shocked to see Angel Gabriel his during visit to cave hira in a mountain near Mecca.He is a true prophet.As a human he was terrified in his first sight to meet Angel gabriel and came to his wife wrap blanket over him because of fear.Later slowly he was getting whole revelation of quran in his life time and collectively what appears to be quran now.Please read proper sites ar books to know about him and islam.
Just try to search discover truths with open look.You may have a new different opinion about him (prophet).Thank you dear.
www.irf.com


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Post 6

swl

Hi openthinker,

With respect, the piece above was largely researched from the Koran & Hadith directly and sources given exhaustively. What you suggest is a matter of interpretation and opinion.


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Post 7

openthinker

Hi,

With respect, the piece above was researched???? from the Koran & Hadith, mixed with false and personal opinion.Sources are given not done exhaustively and tried to prove Islam as a false religion exhaustively. What you suggest is a matter of interpretation and opinion: such as dreaming. Muhammed(PBUH) got message from God through Angel Gabriel like other prophets of God such as Moses(PBUH), Jesus (PBUH). If you are interested than you can research with open mind on Koran,Hadith and scientific proofs of Quran. Please visit sites such as www.irf.com,www.themiraclesofthequran.com and www.islam-qa.com.smiley - smileysmiley - biggrin


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Post 8

swl

Ok. I'm going to start with your first post - "He is a true prophet".

It's pretty much accepted that Mohammed made 22 predictions as recorded in Suras 2:23, 2:24, 2:88, 2:89,3:10,106,107,144, 5:70, 8:7, 9:14, 15:9, 15:96, 24:55, 28:85, 30:1-4, 41:42, 48:16-21,27,28, 54:44, 54:45, 56:1-56, 110:1, 110:2.

There are three types of "prophecies" - military, theological and one political. The military prophecies of victory are only to be expected given that they were given on the eve of battle. He was hardly likely to fight in the first place if he expected to lose. The theological prophecies refer to the Koran remaining unchanged. That would have been pretty much self-fulfilling except Uthman (the first Caliph) formed a committee that compiled the Koran and ordered the destruction of variant texts. Many Sunni believe that two verses were added by the Shi-ites. The last prophecy relates to the defeat of the Byzantines in Syria by the Persians. This was a foregone conclusion, the only debate being how long it would take. Mohammed "predicted" that the Byzantines would be defeated in "a small number of years". Abu Bakr placed a bet that this meant three years. Mohammed allegedly corrected him, saying that a small number of years meant between three and nine years. The Persians actually triumphed 12 years later.

Given this, on what evidence do you make the claim that Mohammed was a "prophet"?


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Post 9

openthinker

smiley - biggrinsmiley - teaBefore seeing reply to your question?>Visit
I recommend you to visit www.miraclesofthequran.com
Also vist www.irf.net or www.yusufestes.com

9 Steps to Purify the Heart
May I suggest to the seeker of truth do the following NINE STEPS to purification of the heart?

Clean - your mind, your heart & soul - remove all prejudices & biases.
Thank God - for what you have - every moment of every day.
Read - a good translation of the meaning of the Holy Quran in a language that they can understand best. (http://islamtomorrow.com/downloads/)
Reflect on the meanings & consider the bounties of your Lord.
Seek - Forgiveness From God & Learn to Forgive others.
Ask - in your heart for Guidance from Above.
Open - your heart and mind.
Continue - to do this up for a few months. And be regular in it.
Avoid - the poison of evil while your heart is opening for the "rebirth of your soul."
----------------------------------------------------------------------


To see various proofs that Quran is revelation from God.

See below link and description to it.

INTRODUCTION

Another miraculous aspect of the Qur'an is its prediction of future events, all of which have so far been fulfilled. This is one of the proofs that the Qur'an is the Word of Allah. In the following pages, we will dwell on some of these events.

THE VICTORY OF BYZANTIUM

An astonishing prediction is found in the first verses of Surat ar-Rum, which refers to the Byzantine Empire, the eastern part of the later Roman Empire: The Byzantine Empire, which had met with a great defeat, would soon gain victory.

Alif, Lam, Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice. (Qur'an, 30:1-4)

These verses were revealed around 620, almost 7 years after the idolatrous Persians had severely defeated Christian Byzantium in 613-14. In fact, Byzantium had suffered such heavy losses that it seemed impossible for it even to survive, let alone be victorious again. Following their defeat of the Byzantines at Antioch in 613, the Persians seized control of Damascus, Cilicia, Tarsus, Armenia, and Jerusalem. The loss of Jerusalem in 614 was particularly traumatic for the Byzantines, for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was destroyed and the Persians seized the "True Cross," the symbol of Christianity.174 In addition, the Avars, Slavs, and Lombards also were posing serious threats to the Byzantine Empire. The Avars had reached as far as the walls of Constantinople. Emperor Heraclius ordered the gold and silver in churches to be melted and turned into money in order to meet the army's expenses. When this proved insufficient, bronze statues were melted down in order to mint more money. Many governors had revolted against Heraclius, and Byzantium was on the point of collapse.175 Mesopotamia, Cilicia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Armenia, which had earlier belonged to Byzantium, were invaded by the idolatrous Persians.176


The Dead Sea basin where Byzantium was defeated by Persians. Above is a satellite photograph of the region. The Lake of Lut region, which is the lowest region of the world, is 395 meter below the sea level.


In short, everyone was expecting Byzantium to be destroyed. But during this time, the first verses of Surat ar-Rum were revealed, announcing that Byzantium would triumph in 3 to 9 years. This predicted victory seemed so impossible that the Arab polytheists thought it would never come true.


On top a satellite photograph of the Dead Sea basin. The altitude of the Dead Sea could only be determined with modern measurement techniques. These measurements led to the discovery that this region is the "lowest region on the Earth."

Like all the other predictions in the Qur'an, however, this one also came true. In 622, Heraclius gained a number of victories over the Persians and conquered Armenia.177 In December 627, the two empires fought a decisive battle at Nineveh, some 50 kilometres east of the Tigris river, near Baghdad. This time too, the Byzantine army defeated the Persians. A few months later, the Persians had to sue for peace with Byzantium, which obliged them to return the territories they had taken from it.178

The Byzantine victory was completed when Emperor Heraclius defeated the Persian ruler Khosrow II in 630, recaptured Jerusalem, and regained the "True Cross" for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.179 In the end, "the victory of the Romans" proclaimed by Allah in the Qur'an miraculously came true within the verses' stated "three to nine years" time frame.

Another miracle revealed in these verses is the announcement of a geographical fact that could not have been known by anyone at that time: that the Romans had been defeated in the lowest region of Earth. This Arabic expression adna al-Ard is interpreted as "a nearby place" in many translations. However, this is not the literal meaning, but rather a figurative interpretation. The word adna, derived from the word dani (low), means “the lowest”. The word ard means “the world.” Therefore, adna al-ard means "the lowest place on Earth."

Some interpreters of the Qur'an, considering the closeness of the region in question to the Arabs, prefer the "closest" meaning of the word. However, the actual meaning indicates a very important geological fact: The Dead Sea, one of the regions in which the Byzantines were defeated in 613-14, is the lowest region on Earth.180

As stated earlier, for Christian Byzantium, the loss of the True Cross was the heaviest blow in that defeat in Jerusalem, located near the shores of the Dead Sea.



The Byzantines and the Persians actually fought at the Dead Sea basin, which is situated at the intersection point of the lands belonging to Syria, Palestine, and Jordan. At 399 meters below sea level, the Dead Sea is the "lowest" place on Earth's surface.181

However, as only modern measuring methods and equipment can prove this fact, it would have been impossible for anyone living at that time to realise this truth. Yet, the Qur'an states clearly that this region was the "lowest land" on Earth and thereby provides further evidence that it is the Word of Allah.smiley - smiley


A piece that I am pleased to see ...

Post 10

devil_666imr

This article written by you is totally false and made on some of your personal opinions.Before coming to any conclusions please understand that there are weak and strong hadiths . please go thru the hadiths mentioned in sahih bukhari and sahih muslim to seek truth.also one of your points mentioned that the prophet killed all jews and made their women and children slaves.my friend you very well know moses was a prophet as well, who rescued the children of israel from the pharoh who were slaves.i do not understand how one prophet can save humans from slavery and the other enslave them when in fact they both come from the lineage of abraham.so investigate properly before writing anything about religion as it is a sensitive issue for a lot of people.do you know the quran mentions jesus christs name more than it mentions prophet mohammed and all muslims believe in all prophets who came before him and also believe the 2nd coming of jesus. if the qur'an was fabricated by a human who wanted spread falsehood than the prophet would have proclaimed himself as god (nausbillah).


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Post 11

openthinker

smiley - biggrinsmiley - biggrinsmiley - biggrinGOOD REPLY KEEP IT UP


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Post 12

laconian

Well I found this truly fascinating and an excellent read. To tell the truth, I know embarrassingly little about Islam. It's a situation I'm keen to rectify, and this Entry was a great start smiley - cheers. I can't comment on the validity of the material in the Entry myself, but when you say it was exhaustively researched and give references, SWL, I believe you smiley - smiley.

Just one thing: 'ahadith'. In the entry we are introduced to the Hadith. Later you say "The principle compiler of ahadith...". Is 'ahadith' the plural?


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Post 13

warner - a new era of cooperation

SWL smiley - smiley
>>Given this, on what evidence do you make the claim that Mohammed was a "prophet"?<<
This entry is not acceptable to the majority of Muslims, as I expect you know. The controversy that Salman Rushdie caused was not helpful to the relationship of Muslims with others in UK. ie. satanic verses etc.
Would you like to discuss the issues, before I bring it up with the h2g2Editors?
smiley - peacesign


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Post 14

Sho - gainfully employed again

But is the entry supposed to be acceptable to Muslims, or any other religious group. As far as I can see it asks and answers a question.


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Post 15

swl

warner - if religious people have a problem with documented facts, that is their problem. If you can point out a factually incorrect point in the entry and back your claim up with authoritative academic sources, go ahead. If you're claiming the truth hurts - well life's a bitch.


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Post 16

warner - a new era of cooperation

SWL smiley - smiley
Of course I can point out incorrect facts. The standard of wikipedia would not allow this entry to exist, because it is deeply flawed, as already pointed out to you.
You do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet of Almighty God, which is your prerogative, but I think that this entry should not be in the edited guide, unless it includes that it is your opinion of the facts, which as I have said before, goes against the vast majority of Muslims opinion. How would Christians like "Who was Jesus" written about in a blasphemous way, as fact.
I know I wouldn't!
smiley - peacesign


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Post 17

swl

Point out the inaccuracies in the entry please, not the chit chat on the threads around it. The threads are not in the Guide.


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Post 18

warner - a new era of cooperation

smiley - ok
"The account holds that Muhammad pronounced a verse acknowledging the existence of three Meccan goddesses considered to be the daughters of Allah, praising them, and appealing for their intercession. According to these accounts, Muhammad later retracted the verses at the behest of Gabriel. Islamic scholars vigorously objected to the historicity of the incident as early as the tenth century CE. In any event, relations between the Muslims and their pagan fellow-tribesmen rapidly deteriorated."
* Taken from "Muhammad" - wikipedia *

So, is that what you want? The same as the Salman Rushdie conflict?
I don't see the benefit of civil war, myself, particularly over some "distorted" or disputed facts.
I am suggesting that your article is written with the intention of showing "the universe", that it's not credible that Muhammad was a prophet. That's just as bad as "distorting" facts to prove that he was.
Best not in the edited guide, IMO


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Post 19

swl

You're citing Wiki??? Are you serious? Do you understand how the Guide works? Do you understand what "Peer Reviewed" means?


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Post 20

swl

You do know that I could edit that Wiki page right now to replace "Muhammad" with "Mickey Mouse" don't you? You do know that it was last edited on 7/2/09?

As it is, all you refer to is "some" Islamic scholars objected to the "Satanic Verses". Note the "some". By no means all.


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