A Conversation for Abortion


Post 1


Hello, My name is Jack and I wish to share some profound information with you today. Please read what follows carefully.

Unfortunately for a great many souls, the Lord God Almighty is not feared, revered and loved as He should and deserves. On that fateful day (Judgement Day) every soul of every person that has occupied a body will stand before Him and be judged!! Their are many biblical references to this in the bible but I tend to reference Rev 20:11 - 15:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So as one (if they are smart enough to even believe in the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, that framed the worlds from nothing by speaking them into existence) reads this biblical passage it is easy to understand that all will stand The Judgement and answer for their deeds whether they be good or bad according to the scriptures. Of course "the books" being the bible (Genesis thru Revelation) and the other book being the "Book of Life". Which is the book the Lord Jesus places your name in when one is baptized into his death, when he adds you to His Kingdom, His Body, His Church. Then if you a remain a true worshipper of God and continually do his will until death your name will remain in the "Book of Life". Dear person/s if you are reading this please do not let your intellectual prejudices count you out. Open your mind enough to seek out the truth long enough to genuinely read the Bible. It would behoove any and all men to take a good look at this insurmountable issue before he/she dies. If you are wrong about God, the Bible or the denominational religious form of which you are currently apart, then you will go to The Judgement unprepared. If you read the bible carefully enough, and you don't have to read it that carefully to realize that the Lord Jesus came to earth and established one Kingdom. That Kingdom He is ultimate Lord over and has "All and Sole Authority" over it. It is His Body and it is the Church. Not many bodies or churches. The church in the bible is directly related to the Bride as the Bride of Christ who is the Bridegroom. That is as in a marriage. Not multiple brides, or multiple churches. The scripture says their is only one and he will present that one to God in the end. I actually said all this to make two points. One, you better read that bible and find out about God before it is too late!!!!! And, two, that in Luke 1:39-44:

Luk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
Luk 1:40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Luk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Luk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

So we see that in order for the unborn child of John the Baptist in the womb of Elisabeth the cousin of Mary the mother of Christ, in order for the unborn child to have "leaped in her womb for joy" it had to have had a thought, in order to have a thought you must have a mind, in order to have a mind you must be a person. Now grant you, Elisabeth was 6 months pregnant at the time. But, how anal can you get to try to split hairs with the idea of knowing exactly at what point John the Baptist became a person in the womb of Elisabeth. The bottom line is God made him a unique, singular individual at the point of conception. He was not all like his mother or all like his father, he was uniquely conceived from both of them. Also, why do you think we call it "conception". Because concept is a parallel term with intellect due to the obvious application that concept is solely based on the idea of thought. Whew! I figured that out all by my little self. I don't mean to be sarcastic but, it really is just that simple. It doesn't take a college degree, or status in the community or some ill-conceved religious authority to know that that is true. All things about God are simple, it is man that complicates, confuses, perverts and/or imagines Him and His precepts, and makes them any different or simple and understandable than they plainly are already. So, to the most ultimate of all Judges, Lawmakers and Kingdoms both temporal and eternal, physical and spiritual above all others period, ABORTION IS KILLING AN INNOCENT PERSON!!! Now, yes, their are from time to time unfortunate circumstances where a babies birth can kill the mother. In these rare circumstances it is I believe the decision of the mother to decide if she going to give birth and possibly die or not, in this case she has the right to decide to live. In this case God who know the hearts of men will know the truth. But, to, as a society, allow abortion legally is just as idiotic as allowing any other form of murder to be legal! I do not advocate legislating morals that don't directly disallow an individual to live their life as they so choose. Ultimately they will stand The Judgement for their individual deeds. But, abortion does disallow the baby the right to its life and that should be illegal. I hope you might want to consider where you would be today if your mother had chose to kill you. Ironically enough (sadly too) probably better off, because if you had been murdered as a unborn baby you would forego The Judgement and the first reason why I have authored this correspondence would be a mute point to you. But, since you are someone that has made it to the age of accountability, you will require the blood of Jesus to cleanse you continually unto death in order to escape the torment of Tartarus, Hades (area of Hadean realm where unforgivin souls go to wait The Judgement) and the damnation into Hell on that fatefull day. If you want to know a little more about this read Luke 16:19-31. You will read about a poor beggar named Lazarus and a rich man; Lazarus dies and opens his eyes and he is in Abrahams bosem (a place in Paradise, Hades) and the rich man dies and opens his eyes and he is in Tartarus, Hades. These two places within the Hadean realm are divided by a great chasm so that no one can pass from one place to the other. The rich man is in a place of torment and is locked in immediately after death. So we know after we die there is no more time to get it right. Read it why don't you, please, you will see what I mean. Well I've carried on long enough. I have intentionally omitted much biblical support to much of what I have said about God. ANd at the same time I have added biblical support to what I have stated, some of the support only in part. THis is in hope that you will search it out for yourself and maybe realize how much you really need you know about God that you didn't know you didn't know. If you wish to learn more about God and the Bible and what you must do to be forgiven and live forever with God in heaven seek out the truth thru one of the many church of Christ locations near you and/or search it on the web.

Thank You for your time, and I pray, God Bless. smiley - smiley


Post 2

Otto Fisch ("One, you started coming over. Two, you started sleeping over. Three, you started taking over. Four, you told me it was over.")

What really puzzles me about you religious types is why you think that posting a long rambling passage of text full of selective Biblical quotations (many of which seem completely irrelevant to the topic in hand) will convince anyone of anything.


Post 3


First, I would like to say thank you for your reply.

Secondly, I would agree I did ramble some. I had been up for many hours and stumbled on this web site, doing some research. I obviously was up very late. My correspondence was kind of a long blurt, so to speak, absolutely no planning or editing went into it. None the less it was very relavant and poignant. What, unfortunately, most people do not understand is that God is relavant to everything. In II Peter 1:3, we can know that all things pertaining to this life are provided by God and more abundantly.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

You might notice the "hath given us all things that pertain to life", not just some things, "through the knowledge of Him". I believe abortion is one of the almost infinite matters that make up the thing we refer to as life. And, I used one of the most pertinent accounts of the truth that an unborn child is a person (John the Baptist in his mothers womb, leaping for joy in the presence of Mary the mother of Jesus when the Holy Spirit made him aware he was in such close proximity to Christ {in Mary's womb}). Not just a blob that will eventually be human, that is ok to suck out their brains, or fry with chemicals or the like, in order to terminate its life, life!!! And yes I did select specific biblical passages to support the points I made in my correspondence, but be careful, those biblical passages are all sacred and powerful, after all they are the words of the Almighty God! Hebrews 4:12 says:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

also II Timothy 3:16 & 17 say:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You might also notice from these bible selections the ultimate substance of the Word of God. It (the substance of it, like the meatal of a sword) does and will pierce even to divide soul and spirit. Every creature will, that means you and me and everybody that has ever been in a body is completely open and exposed to the Great singular God of all. Also, that to be truly righteous you must receive and practice the instructions you would receive from the Word. Not man or his words. Contrary to popular belief, the Bible was not written by man. If it were it would be riddled with fallacies. Just like all the other false doctrines that exist in the world of religion, or for that matter in the world period (to err is human). It was penned by men, it was authored by the Holy Spirit and it is infallible. Notice I Peter 1:20 & 21:

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Read Psalm 19 for reference to God and his Word for pureness and infallibilty.

Below is a simple statement from Christ about His Word. Here in John 17 He is praying to His Father to help His Apostles in the erecting of the church after he ascends to heaven to sit on His throne (the throne of David to rule over His spiritual kingdom) on the right hand of God.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

These few passages from I Peter give a short synopse of these salvation of man, by what means and capping it off with the eternal nature of God's word being FOREVER!!

1Pe 1:18 knowing that ye were redeemed, not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb without spot, even the blood of Christ:
1Pe 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth.
1Pe 1:24 For, All flesh is as grass, And all the glory thereof as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower falleth:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord abideth for ever. And this is the word

So, what a truth seeker would realize is that what you refer to as simply "selective Biblical quotations" is the ultimate truth of the everything that ever was, is or will be. It is the very fabric of existence. These words do promise that God will save the lost from eternal damnation and usher them into their true form for eternity in heaven with Him, and that God will punish the damned by ushering them into the "lake of fire" (Hell), for an eternity without Him. You might not know that the Bible is the oldest book (from a collection of books) in existence. It was the first book ever to be printed. It is the most valuable text (monetary value) in existence, it is considered priceless, beyone imagination. It has been translated into more than two thousand languages. It has many , many other fascinating facts that no other text can even come close to. It is contained by 66 books to be exact which came into being by 40 different men that penned them (so to speak) over a period of 1500 - 1600 years. These men were all from different backgrounds, occupations, languages and much more diverse personal histories and characteristics, yet in spite of the fact that their is now way they could have collaborated in its creation (words, concepts, etc..) the whole Holy Bible is in perfect harmony! That is if you understand it the way God meant it to be interpreted. This can only be with the heart of true truth seeking person, not a human agendizing or perverse type of heart. If you come to a point where it seems to be contradictive it is because you do not fully understand what you are studying yet. Believe me that is true. I have proven it to myself plenty of times. Really you think that somehow someone got the idea to pull off the greatest hoax in all history? Under the circumstances stated above that would be impossible right? Also, if you really think about it the only thing one will get from obeying its precepts is a better existence while here on earth and in the everlasting. No riches, or power, or fame or any of the other worldly things the secular world or Satan considers success. That if thats a gag, then let me have it! Where contained in its anything is a motive to decieve anyone for any reason. If you study other supposed religious doctrines it is easy to see this same test is not true.

If one would also read II Peter 1:2:

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

One can see that we will receive grace and peace through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord. Now, If you wish to continue to believe as you do now and are not interested in the real truth, which can save your soul (James 1:21):

Jam 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

That is your choice. God made you and me and all "free moral agents". Capable of making your/our own choices in life. A wonderful lyric from The Moody Blues Song "Tuesday Afternoon" says "just what you want to be you will be in the end". That didn't come from the bible but, I know a good study of the bible will support it, by scripture. Also, another great lyric from another great song by Led Zeppelin. Oh I think you know the song, but the lyric goes like this, "Yes there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there is still time to change the road you are on", whew, great stuff. Strangely enough this is also a very biblical statement. Even though I don't think the composers realize it. You see "the two paths you can go by" are the fleshly/worldly walk in this life or the Christian walk in this life. The "long run" is the time we have from birth to death. And the inference between "the long run" and "time to change the road your on" is that if you realize that you might not, or more definatively are not, on the right road/path, now is the time to change it, before it is too late!! After death is too late!! I am really only sharing these simple bible truths with you or anyone else that is willing too read it, because I love you! As christians (true christians mind you) we have to love all people. The idea that a soul or many souls will be lost on that fateful day is a very unpleasant thought and truth. We are chartered by scripture to care (love) about the lost, always remembering where we came from and that we still are not perfect, that we still fail to please Him from time to time, and how quickly we could fall back into a worldly existence and be lost again. We are to heed the instruction of I John 1:6-10:

1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I am not some righteous indignant, turning my nose up at you as some lowlife sinner. I am a true friend (even though I don't know you, or anyone else that might have read my article), simply reaching out, in order to offer you a helping hand, in hopes that you might accept it. I do not apologize for the truth I have shared but I do hope I have not offended you. If you were to decide to seek out the truth and then obeyed it like they did in Acts 2:37 - 42 that would be a wondrous thing, (previous scriptures 22 - 36, Peter preaching Jesus to those who had him crucified; he brought them to the knowledge, and they chose to act on it and obeyed the gospel immediately, and the Lord added them to His Church; this is the account in Acts of the Apostles of Jesus Christ, of the birth of the church):

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Oh, I suppose if I didn't love the Lord, or you either, I wouldn't care about my own soul much less yours, and I would probably spend my time listening to that Moody Blues or Led Zeppelin I love so much instead of what God would have me do. Just like I have been married for 22 years. It was my love for God that my marriage is in still in tact and I have not persued a worldly divorce. If I had served my own selfish ideas I would have done the same thing worldly people do when they are tired of their spouses; I'd be divorced. But, instead I am happy and content with who I am with now and plan to stay that way until death. Just as the Lord my God would have it.

I just hope that for one moment you might believe that not all that call themselves Christians are Christians. The ones that aren't have done much damage to the perception of the body of Christ. Of course I am aware of all the evil and hypocracy that has been done supposedly in the name of Christ over the centuries. It is, to say the least, very unfortunate! But, we have a foe, I have not yet mentioned. The devil is the great deceiver. He did it in the garden, and man fell. He will continue to try and deceive and destroy all the mortal and everlasting lives of everyone he possibly can until his judgement. He delights at the misery of others and their immediate and ultimate destruction. So, suffice it to say we should not be surprised when we take an account of all the horrible atrocities he has influentially brought about over the ages. He will go to any length, and to any depth of lowness to leave one's temporal and eternal life desolate. Please won't you take your guard down just long enough to really seek the truth. A genuine search and effective study of the scriptures will enlighten the open and honest heart and give he or she real hope for there real future, their everlasting one. I implore your senses to comprehend my sincerity and the truth it is founded on. This correspondence on our Lord, is not false, it is true. I leave you with this one last scripture, and then you may once again make your decision if on Judgement Day God will remind you of your response of contempt for Him (Otto Fisch reply), and remind you of my attempt to help you gain the knowledge of Him, His Son and how He died to redeem you, and how you refused Him!!!!

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

The ball is in your court, decide. Your being convinced or not your day at The Judgement will come.

Remember churches of Christ are in your area, or you can find help online via a search.

Thank You and God get the glory!!


Post 4

Otto Fisch ("One, you started coming over. Two, you started sleeping over. Three, you started taking over. Four, you told me it was over.")

There is a lot of wisdom in the Bible. Love thy neighbour as yourself is something I try to life my life by. But this teaching is not exclusive to the Bible, and is a common component of many religious faiths and of secular, humanist morality.

However, there is a lot in the Bible that makes little or no sense, and some of it is downright morally objectionable. Given the choice between following my own conscience and my own rationality, and blindly and unreflectively following the minutiae of an ancient document that was written for a completely different time and place, then I'll go for rationality, thanks.


Post 5


I agree with the previous writer about religion, however, on the topic of abortion I find it hard to justify the killing of a baby. Many years ago I trained as a Paramedic at the Central Midd in London. Where I had the dubious pleasure of watching an abortion. The foetus was 18 weeks and the surgeon ripped it out of the woman. First a hand then a foot then part of the leg appeared; it was at this time I walked out.
Before this experience I was of the type that said let the woman decide, it's her body. However, after that I realised it wasn't just hers. There is the moral issues, rape etc, but then it wasn't the babies fault. then again who is going to look after it and pay for it....
The questions are endless and so are the answers. Who's right? I certainly don't know. Should a young girl of say 12 be forced to have a child after she's been raped? Forget religion they refuse to think logically, but I hope I never have to be the one to decide. Head in sand? most probably.
anyway enough said on my part, thanks for listening(or should that be reading).
regards to all


Post 6


What I find interesting about people who quote the bible to support their beliefs, is that they only quote parts of the bible. They handily ignore the bits that contradict other bits, or that don't support their particular cause. How do they decide which bits of the bible to believe and which to ignore, I wonder?

smiley - panda


Post 7


That would depend on who's paying them. Just look at those tele evangelists in the states. You've got a hand it to them, they certainly know how to con the general (and I need to say) gullible public.

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