A Conversation for Abortion
The Artist Formerly Known as Nerd42 Started conversation Dec 8, 2003
You know, it's really quite a paradox, the politics of the abortion issue. Irony abounds. Especially on the pro-choice side. First they say "The arguments of the Pro-Life movement are based in emotion rather than fact." then they say "Pro-Lifers don't care about women" - an argument based on emotion rather than fact!
I've started my own debate forum here on h2g2 for anyone who's interested: A1324252
What's really strange is that I seem to be the only pro-lifer, at least the only vocal pro-lifer, on h2g2.
Why so many Pro-choicers?
Cadmus Posted Dec 8, 2003
Pro-choice is a left-wing position (most of the time). Douglas Adams was extremely left-wing, and this place was spawned from Adams and his works. As such the people who come here would probably be Adams fans and most probaby share his very left-wing ideologies, as such you will find a lot of Pro-choicers here.
Why so many Pro-choicers?
The Artist Formerly Known as Nerd42 Posted Dec 8, 2003
yep. i knew that. i like hitchhiker.
"we all need to learn to laugh more at ourselves"
- Rush Limbaugh (out of context, just like most of rush's quotes)
i know everybody here doesn't like rush of course, but this quote makes an excellent response to why I can still be a hitchhiker fan even with the bits that make fun of my positions.
another reason, other than just being able to laugh at myself is that the hitchhiker jokes are, of course, not valid arguments, and quite often make fun of left wing positions as well. take for instance the Babel Fish as proof of the non-existance of God. God was misquoted there. What He actually said was:
"I refuse to prove that I exist, says God, for proof denies faith, and without faith YOU are nothing"
"But, says Man, the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It proves you exist so by your arguments I don't"
"Oh dear, says God, I wish you hadn't said that"
"And Man promptly vanishes in a puff of logic"
douglas adams was an excellent author, just like barbra stisand is, to most people, an excellent singer. As long as the topic's not politics, most everyone just gets along.
Why so many Pro-choicers?
Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide! Posted Dec 8, 2003
I've definitely come across other pro-life people here.
As far as your debate page, I don't know how much of a response you'll get. Frankly, looking at the page, it really seems to be more all about you than about debating issues. And there are so many other, extremely active, debate forums here on h2g2 that I'm not sure people are really seeking out another.
SerfsUp Posted Dec 8, 2003
Nerd42: Well at least you can count me on your pro-life stance. I hope people would remember that Margaret Sanger who was an American big on promoting birth control and other 'reproductive rights' was really and eugenicist who visited Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.
When a new human life becomes an 'inconvenience' then how convenient it is to call it non-human and thus can be an innocent allowed to be sacrificed.
RFJS__ - trying to write an unreadable book, finding proofreading tricky Posted Dec 8, 2003
It is not necessarily the case that she was wrong about one thing simply because she was wrong about another. Of course, it doesn't mean she was right either. The fact that one pro-choice person was also a Nazi sympathiser really has no bearing on whether abortion should or should not be permitted in a given set of circumstances.
When a bundle of cells becomes an inconvenience, how difficult it is to decide whether it is actually a human or not.
Sea Change Posted Dec 9, 2003
Margaret Sanger and WEB DuBois were friends. I find the Nazi-sympathizer statements above very unlikely.
SerfsUp Posted Dec 9, 2003
Ms. Sanger's writings can be read by all. Note the sinister tone in this quote written by her in her "The Pivot of Civilization" in the 20's:
"The elimination of 'human weeds,' for the 'cessation of charity,' because it prolonged the lives of the unfit for the segregation of 'morons, misfits, and the maladjusted,' and for the sterilization of genetically 'inferior races.'"
Actually the Nazis outlawed abortion in Germany --because they didn't want random loss of 'superior' future Aryians--- while they promoted abortion in the occupied countries.
Also Ms. Sanger was a follower of Theosophy occultism like Adolf Hitler. We need to stop sacrificing the unborn to Dagan and Moloch like heartless Pagans, IMHO.
RFJS__ - trying to write an unreadable book, finding proofreading tricky Posted Dec 9, 2003
That's okay, then. There are, I suspect, very few people alive who have ever sacrificed anything to Dagan or Moloch.
The Artist Formerly Known as Nerd42 Posted Dec 9, 2003
Actually I'm getting about as much response than I can handle. It's a debate, me vs. the world. The world's arguments don't work sometimes and so it resorts to name-calling.
The point of this is not to provide a place for both sides to debate on a level playing field. It's there so that the political debate threads I've started, and other people's political threads I've disrupted, on askh2g2 can be moved somewhere else so as not to bother people who don't want to hear from me.
Though occasionally there is a talking point or some article or other I post comments at, and try to put in a plug for my little channel.
I'm Pro-Life too
jack_cassandra Posted May 23, 2008
Hello, My name is Jack and I wish to share some profound information with you today. Please read what follows carefully.
Unfortunately for a great many souls, the Lord God Almighty is not feared, revered and loved as He should and deserves. On that fateful day (Judgement Day) every soul of every person that has occupied a body will stand before Him and be judged!! Their are many biblical references to this in the bible but I tend to reference Rev 20:11 - 15:
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
So as one (if they are smart enough to even believe in the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, that framed the worlds from nothing by speaking them into existence) reads this biblical passage it is easy to understand that all will stand The Judgement and answer for their deeds whether they be good or bad according to the scriptures. Of course "the books" being the bible (Genesis thru Revelation) and the other book being the "Book of Life". Which is the book the Lord Jesus places your name in when one is baptized into his death, when he adds you to His Kingdom, His Body, His Church. Then if you a remain a true worshipper of God and continually do his will until death your name will remain in the "Book of Life". Dear person/s if you are reading this please do not let your intellectual prejudices count you out. Open your mind enough to seek out the truth long enough to genuinely read the Bible. It would behoove any and all men to take a good look at this insurmountable issue before he/she dies. If you are wrong about God, the Bible or the denominational religious form of which you are currently apart, then you will go to The Judgement unprepared. If you read the bible carefully enough, and you don't have to read it that carefully to realize that the Lord Jesus came to earth and established one Kingdom. That Kingdom He is ultimate Lord over and has "All and Sole Authority" over it. It is His Body and it is the Church. Not many bodies or churches. The church in the bible is directly related to the Bride as the Bride of Christ who is the Bridegroom. That is as in a marriage. Not multiple brides, or multiple churches. The scripture says their is only one and he will present that one to God in the end. I actually said all this to make two points. One, you better read that bible and find out about God before it is too late!!!!! And, two, that in Luke 1:39-44:
Luk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
Luk 1:40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Luk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Luk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
So we see that in order for the unborn child of John the Baptist in the womb of Elisabeth the cousin of Mary the mother of Christ, in order for the unborn child to have "leaped in her womb for joy" it had to have had a thought, in order to have a thought you must have a mind, in order to have a mind you must be a person. Now grant you, Elisabeth was 6 months pregnant at the time. But, how anal can you get to try to split hairs with the idea of knowing exactly at what point John the Baptist became a person in the womb of Elisabeth. The bottom line is God made him a unique, singular individual at the point of conception. He was not all like his mother or all like his father, he was uniquely conceived from both of them. Also, why do you think we call it "conception". Because concept is a parallel term with intellect due to the obvious application that concept is solely based on the idea of thought. Whew! I figured that out all by my little self. I don't mean to be sarcastic but, it really is just that simple. It doesn't take a college degree, or status in the community or some ill-conceved religious authority to know that that is true. All things about God are simple, it is man that complicates, confuses, perverts and/or imagines Him and His precepts, and makes them any different or simple and understandable than they plainly are already. So, to the most ultimate of all Judges, Lawmakers and Kingdoms both temporal and eternal, physical and spiritual above all others period, ABORTION IS KILLING AN INNOCENT PERSON!!! Now, yes, their are from time to time unfortunate circumstances where a babies birth can kill the mother. In these rare circumstances it is I believe the decision of the mother to decide if she going to give birth and possibly die or not, in this case she has the right to decide to live. In this case God who know the hearts of men will know the truth. But, to, as a society, allow abortion legally is just as idiotic as allowing any other form of murder to be legal! I do not advocate legislating morals that don't directly disallow an individual to live their life as they so choose. Ultimately they will stand The Judgement for their individual deeds. But, abortion does disallow the baby the right to its life and that should be illegal. I hope you might want to consider where you would be today if your mother had chose to kill you. Ironically enough (sadly too) probably better off, because if you had been murdered as a unborn baby you would forego The Judgement and the first reason why I have authored this correspondence would be a mute point to you. But, since you are someone that has made it to the age of accountability, you will require the blood of Jesus to cleanse you continually unto death in order to escape the torment of Tartarus, Hades (area of Hadean realm where unforgivin souls go to wait The Judgement) and the damnation into Hell on that fatefull day. If you want to know a little more about this read Luke 16:19-31. You will read about a poor beggar named Lazarus and a rich man; Lazarus dies and opens his eyes and he is in Abrahams bosem (a place in Paradise, Hades) and the rich man dies and opens his eyes and he is in Tartarus, Hades. These two places within the Hadean realm are divided by a great chasm so that no one can pass from one place to the other. The rich man is in a place of torment and is locked in immediately after death. So we know after we die there is no more time to get it right. Read it why don't you, please, you will see what I mean. Well I've carried on long enough. I have intentionally omitted much biblical support to much of what I have said about God. ANd at the same time I have added biblical support to what I have stated, some of the support only in part. THis is in hope that you will search it out for yourself and maybe realize how much you really need you know about God that you didn't know you didn't know. If you wish to learn more about God and the Bible and what you must do to be forgiven and live forever with God in heaven seek out the truth thru one of the many church of Christ locations near you and/or search it on the web.
Thank You for your time, and I pray, God Bless.
I'm Pro-Life too
Lasereye Posted Feb 1, 2009
Read my article - "A Spoonful of Sugar" to understand my view.
All I ask is that politicians who have relied upon my vote to gain power, use my vote how I advise them and represent me and protect my society.
Key: Complain about this post
- 1: The Artist Formerly Known as Nerd42 (Dec 8, 2003)
- 2: Cadmus (Dec 8, 2003)
- 3: The Artist Formerly Known as Nerd42 (Dec 8, 2003)
- 4: Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide! (Dec 8, 2003)
- 5: SerfsUp (Dec 8, 2003)
- 6: RFJS__ - trying to write an unreadable book, finding proofreading tricky (Dec 8, 2003)
- 7: Sea Change (Dec 9, 2003)
- 8: SerfsUp (Dec 9, 2003)
- 9: RFJS__ - trying to write an unreadable book, finding proofreading tricky (Dec 9, 2003)
- 10: The Artist Formerly Known as Nerd42 (Dec 9, 2003)
- 11: jack_cassandra (May 23, 2008)
- 12: Lasereye (Feb 1, 2009)