h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Please respond, particularly if you are based in the USA

This is a particularly cruel case. The nun in question cannot speak a word of English, and, as you will see if you read the report, she only gets to see a Tibetan speaker after intervals of many months. If you write to any of the US representatives, you should stress the fact that Tibetans are no longer safe in Nepal, that many Tibetan refugees have be forcibly repatriated to Tibet, where they face imprisonment and torture ( Shigatse prison in Tibet currently holds about 300 such refugees.)


Granted Asylum, Nun Held in Va. Jail
Tibetan Entangled in Post-9/11 Caution
HOPEWELL, Va. -- Sonam always feared her devotion to Buddhism would land her
behind bars in her native China. As it turns out, she is serving a long term
in jail -- not in East Asia but in central Virginia.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50472-2004Jan26.html?nav=hptoc_m

If you'd like to do something about this travesty of justice, you can send
emails to:

President Bush at [email protected]

To contact the Directorate of Homeland Security go here & use the drop down
menu to send them a message on immigration issues (there's also regular mail
address):
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/contactus

You may want to contact Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA) who has been an ardent
supporter of Tibetan human rights:
http://www.house.gov/wolf/contact.html

US citizens may also want to contact their respective Congressional
representatives.

You can also send emails to the Washington Post:
[email protected]

We should demand that Sonam be released pending the determination of her
case.

She needs our help now,

Chaiwallah

Will do!

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Good on ya, Math. Spread the word. Interesting, isn't it, how it's usually the "usual suspects" who respond to these things.

Cheers,

Chai

Done

Noggin

Yeah right stop looking at me like that I've done it, OK. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'm afraid that I don't see what is 'particularly cruel' about this case.

She appears to be an unsponsored alien, who did not bring sufficient documentation to claim asylum. She flees possible prison with horrible tortures, to a foreign country where she does not speak the language, has apparently spent all of her money on the plane ticket, and is now being kept safe in a warm and dry facility, with plenty to eat.

She is being provided with one of their legal defenders, and is protected under their laws. She will be cared for until her next court date, and a decision will be reached.

Where else should she expect to go? What would she do if she were just plopped on the street, still unable to communicate with anyone?

She could have been turned around and sent right back. I wonder if she would have preferred that? It's probably still an option open to her. Her current situation cannot be that much worse than the lifestyle of a normal Tibetan nun.

Americans are often considered arrogant for visiting other countries and being surprised when someone doesn't speak English. Perhaps she could try to pick up a little during her stay.

I don't mean to sound cold, but it just doesn't sound so horrible given her circumstances.

<>

Did you actually read the report, Fords? "Cared for", like, in prison, incommunicado, not allowed a Tibetan speaking visitor more than once in six months. Having been granted asylum in Arlington, she is re-imprisoned because the Immigration Authorities want to appeal against it. Posing so great a threat to US security that she , a Buddhist nun ( not exactly known for suicide bombing, are they???), must be shackled for her court appearances!

Come on, Fords, you don't sound cold, just a bit weird.

<>

The crucial difference between prison ( or indeed boarding school ) and a monastery is that one's presence in a monastery is a matter of choice, which is not true of the other options. Furthermore, despite your condescendingly disparaging remarks, in a Tibetan monastery, she has the support and comfort of a community of her peers.

Hi FordsTowel,

Words fail me... and as others here will testify that is rare.

Matholwch /|\.

I certainly do not mean to offend, and I did read the article.

Yes monastary life is a matter of choice. Indeed all life is the sum of one's choices.

This is a choice she has made, to jump into something serious, without properly examining the risks and consequences. It may have been fear, or panic, or perhaps she IS a potential threat.

How many people, that you do not know, do you let walk around your home unattended? Especially if they have not been able to make clear (to your satisfaction) whether they are a threat or not, and why they are there? Would you let a stranger take your child for a walk, just because they thought they'd like to? Every country, including Tibet, has the right to guard its borders and decide who may come in, and under what circumstances, and with what assurances.

Do any of you know her? Would any of you vouch for her?
I don't, so I wouldn't.

If she feared torture and death, and was merely seeking survival, for the time being she has found it. Nobody is likely to be able to get to her who means her physical harm.

I have no trouble admitting that the trade-off seems horiffic on the surface. It certainly isn't what she had in mind. But they are not responsible for her unrealised expectations, are they?

I still wonder if she would turn around and go back, given a chance. What do you think?

Hi Fordstowel,

Perhaps if China gave up its illegal occupation of Tibet during which millions of Tibetans have been dispossessed, tortured and killed, she might wish to go back. Monks and Nuns in particular have been targets of extreme persecution as many have led campaigns of non-violent, direct action against the communist regime, or given support and comfort to its victims.

If this the US Government's stance towards Tibetan asylum seekers why does it not throw the Dalai Lama into gaol next time he steps foot into the USA? After all the US Government seems more than happy to hop into bed with the 'new' China at every other opportunity, despite China having the world's worst human rights record.

As for being safe from harm now, have you ever seen a US prison?

Anyway Tibet doesn't guard its borders, China's occupation forces do. And the machine guns on the Guard Towers face inwards...

There again the US is now insisting that Britons gain visas just to enter, and we are your only real ally. Makes me wonder why we have sacrificed the lives of our young men in their wars. Also bang goes Florida's tourist industry but what the heck (can you imagine 3 million Britons queuing up outside the American Embassy in London to be interviewed for a tourist visa? No, neither can I)!

To get back to your example. Do you insist that every stranger who visits your home is kept in a locked room without access to simple communications with the outside world? Do you keep them chained up when they move around your house? Do you treat them like a criminal despite having no evidence whatsoever to support that conclusion?

Personally I treat strangers as guests, make them a cup of tea etc. But maybe that's because I am naieve or simply British.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

OK, Fords.

I'm sitting at home with some foreign friends. Someone rings at the door. It's another foreigner, obviously distressed, in a state of panic and fear. It turns out she's from the same country as my friends, who understand what she's saying, and the cause for her distress. They plead with me to let her stay in the house for a few days because her life may be in danger. They're my friends, I know they're decent people, so what do I say? No????? P*** Off !!!!???

Well, OK, but I'm locking you in my cellar in case you're a dangerous lunatic who might stab me in the back with a kitchen knife, and no, I'm not going to let my friends talk to you for six months, even after I've agreed it's OK for you to stay.

Hmmmmmmm.

Surely there are Tibetan monastery(ish) places that exist in the USA. Why wasn't this woman given the option to be placed in a welcoming institution such as this?

I could be wrong but I have never thought that seeking political asylum was a crime? And so why was this woman put into a prison instead of another available situation? She is obviously not a criminal and poses no serious threat to the United States of America.

A friend of mine worked for the UN in Cairo for just over a year - his job was to help sort out which of the thousands upon thousands of Africans who flock to Cairo daily seeking political asylum were 'geniune cases'. The stories of children with hands and limbs chopped off, etc were enough to break anybody's heart. And what also broke my friend's heart was that Cairo was so overrun with petitions that they were not able to help everybody, even if they *were* genuinely in need.

In stark contrast, the USA is massive and has many options available to a woman such as this Tibetan nun. What threat does she pose? Why was she not helped instead of punished? The mind reels.

az

Hi Math (no pun intended),

Yes, China has been reprehensible, but that is China's karma. American monks and nuns have also been targets, though normally in foreign countries. They get killed by the busloads. It's not right, but it does happen, and it is the direct result of choices they made (commendable as they might have been to have made them).

Not meaning to sound glib, I suspect the esteemed Dalai Lama would announce his appending visit, and have all of his papers in order for entry.

If he came in without identification or papers, seeking asylum, I suspect he would have to go through the same routine. How would they know to treat him diffrently than you or me.

I also suspect that the same thing would happen to a Chinese, French, or German monk, nun, or religious leader who did the same.

I have never been inside a US prison. Have you? I've certainly seen enough of the inside of them on the news (over and over). They're certainly not all the country clubs that rich prisoners stay in, but they are not muddy, filthy, or pestilence ridden unless the inmates make them so. TVs are viewable in common rooms, indoor plumbing, clean sheets on mattresses, meals and exercise; not exactly your typical torture chambres.

I am very sensitive to the horrible time that many people in China face each day, but what does that have to do with the U.S. soveriegnty, and their right to safeguard their people? Certainly you don't think that GW Bush runs China, too?

Hmmm, Briton sacrificing lives of young men in American wars? You have a pretty interesting history book, my friend. It seems to me that the U.S. stayed out of the last two world wars for some time, until the threat overwhelmed the UK. I don't think that as many young britons were sacrificed as yanks. Do you really think so? Would you like to be speaking German? I wouldn't.

Terrorism can, apparently, be taught. Just about anyone can be taught to hate. Danger can be around any corner. Why would you trust a clean cut Brit with a backpack any more than an Arab wearing a coat at your front door? Do you think either is automatically a bad guy? Do you think that one could not possibly be dangerous? I would think that allies wouldn't mind at all. They'd understand, I would hope. Should all countries just drop the border concept and immigration control? I Hope Not.

You sound, I'm sorry to say, as if you want the bad guys to win. "Let 'em all in and trust 'em. They look like nice people."

Ah yes, Back to my example. I do not let strangers into my home. They do not come to my door and force a visit. If I did not invite them, and I do not know them, they are generally not welcome (they're most likely soliciting).
Anyone who tries to force their way in, claiming rights that I do not choose to grant them, will have worse to deal with than the unfortunate Tibetan nun.

They are welcome to stay free, but not in my home. They can go their way and leave me alone. Strangers at the door is not the way to make friends; better to have an introduction.

Hmmm, again. How often, exactly, do you invite strangers in your house for tea, etc.? Why might you? Just because they show up on your doorstep? Do you live in a risky neighborhood or a nice one? Many random acts of violence in your locale? Perhaps you are naive, or perhaps you are strong and have faith in people. I have what I like to refer to as a 'Healthy Paranoia'. It has saved my life more than once.

I do wish you the best of luck. I certainly would feel horrible if word came that your altruism proved to be your undoing.

-----------------------------------------------

Thank you HNM, for your admission that precautions could reasonably be taken, even in the best of cases (knowing people who will vouch).
Just remember how many people have been flagged down by persons at the side of the road, in as you say in an 'obviously distressed' state, only to have their auto and possessions stolen, and been left in a ditch to bleed to death.

I love being a good samaritan, but sometimes my gut says I have to worry more about the family waiting for me around the hearth.

-----------------------------------------------

Hiya azahar,

That's an interesting question, and an even more interesting assumption. Are their Tibetan monasteries in the U.S.? Any yanks able to field this one?

My uncle lives in a monastery, but it's hardly Tibetan. If it weren't all male, they might even considering taking her in. The problem is that the church and the state are separate entities, and the church has almost no influence on state policy.

Heaven forbid! Seeking asylum a crime!! Nobody arrested her for seeking asylum, not that I read about. She was detained because she didn't have proper documentation to enter the country. (An entirely different thing. It's like getting a traffic ticket and saying, "I was driving safely; why give me a ticket?" When the ticket was for driving without your papers. (In most, if not all, U.S. states, you are required to carry a valid driver's license, proof of auto insurance, and a registration form for the vehicle you are driving. Missing any one will result in a ticket or arrest. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Out of curiousity, how would YOU *KNOW* if she was a criminal or not? What makes her so 'obviously not a criminal'? How could you possibly know if she poses a threat?

If you do, then you are ahead of the authorities there. They're not mind-readers. They have to go through channels, procedures, and such. They cannot be expected to just take her word for it!

You asked the pertinent question: "What threat does she pose?" And the answer is: "Nobody knows! That's what they're trying to determine!" Apparently without much help from her. She couldn't provide the documentation. Not her fault, but not the fault of the U.S. either.

Cairo has had its problems with handling asylum too, but what does the size of a country have to do with her situation?

Can you see yourself panicked, horrified, and trying to escape a horrible situation? If so, what would you do? Would your first thought be just to escape? Mine might!

So, I scrape together some money from sewing I've done. I decide to leave.

Now, where do I go? To a land where I don't know anybody, cannot speak the language, and won't be able to function or communicate? I'd like to think I'd be smarter.

A Brit seeking asylum in the U.S., or a Yank seeking asylum in the U.K. makes sense. Cubans or Mexicans seeking asylum in Spain, perhaps. Frenchmen seeking asylum in Quebec, certainly.

I am very sorry if she is not happy (right now) with the choices she has made. Many of them were, of course, not her fault. So, for the moment she has a (pardon the expression) cross to bear. This too shall pass.

Either she will be freed and admitted, or refused and returned.

If staying means she has to go through this uncomfortable process, should she stay, or go back?

These will be her choices. I'm only more sorry that she didn't have knowledgeable friends with which to plan her escape.

But, let all visitors run rampantly free just because they know the word asylum?? That's just crazy talk.

Fortunately, Fords, not everyone thinks like you, not even the US judiciary! The following report is just in from the USA.

"We have just received good news than Ani Sonam has been released on parole. We are waiting to get more details. Sonam's case was the subject of a January 27 Washington Post article that was picked up for syndication in many papers. Grace Spring has been a power house on her behalf and deserves all the credit for bringing Sonam's plight to a national audience."

Three cheers for humanity.

Hi Ford,

I suspect you know I was referring to the recent war not the two World Wars. But if we are going to get into that what have we to thank the yanks for? Particularly in the second?

The Americans sat on their hands and watched their allies get conquered (the French, remember them? The "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" that helped them achieve independance) and bombed (the UK) from 1939 to 1942. Only when the USA was threatened by the Japanese did they finally decide to help out. By then we had turned the Germans back in North Africa, broken the Japanese at Kohima, and the Russians had smashed Paulus's 6th Army at Stalingrad. Both Russia and Britain were just beginning to turn the tide, and lo and behold in trot the Americans - gee thanks.

Now we'll always be grateful to the young American men and women who fought beside us, but you can take their political masters and place them on Bikini Atoll for a little test.

The latest couple of American wars were caused by America backing Saddam in the first place so it only seems right thay they should clean up their own mess. We are America's allies and take that commitment seriously, so much so we stand by their side in difficult times. Unlike the Americans support in the Falklands when all they really did was try to help the Argentines keep Las Malvinas, then washed their hands of the whole affair.

American foreign policy since the second world war has been a litany of greed and stupidity at the cost of millions of innocent, foreign, lives. They have traded with dictators and supported mass murderers. Invaded only countries too weak to effectively resist, and carpet bombed civilian populations. Nice history .

I'm so glad we have a special relationship with them.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Hi Fords,

As Ani Sonam's lack of papers seems to be the main criterion on which you would re-patriate her, just remember that, in her own words:

<>

Math -- heartfelt stuff, obviously. I just feel it's overstating it to say "American foreign policy since the second world war has been a litany of greed and stupidity at the cost of millions of innocent, foreign, lives."

Fifty years ago the Americans gave us the Marshall Plan and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Two lights in the gloom that has been most countries' foreign policy throughout history: a litany of greed and stupidity.

One of the Great American Myths is that "the U.S. stayed out of the last two world wars for some time, until the threat overwhelmed the UK".

As Math has so eloquently pointed out, the US stayed out of the second world war until they were directly attacked by the Japanese.

No, sweetie, you weren't our ally, you were just maneuvered into being a fellow traveller.

And having lived and worked in Germany, my best friend being German, the mother of my Stepson being German, the answer to the question "would you like to be speaking German right now?" is that although I am a Brit, I wouldn't mind it at all.

Ben
*off to find statistics for the numbers killed during each world war*

Got them for WWII. They speak for themselves, rather, don't you think? And in the words of my mother "pity the poor Poles".

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/statistics.htm

Ben

And for the First World War.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/casualties.htm

Fords Towel - if you are going to make assertions about how great and noble the US has been, you will find that it is wiser to do so when you have checked the facts. It will be harder to do so, of course.

All of which is irrelevent to the discussion, but I *loathe* unsubstantiated assertions when statistical information is so easy to find these days.

I am now handing the thread back to Chai to use for the purpose for which it was intended.

Ben