h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

External pressures.

Pollution, would be a big one. Mankind is currently subjected to a million times more toxins in the environment than it's predecessers.

Stress. Our modern lives have far more mental stress then our ancestors.
Our bodies do not have to be so physically strong to survive in the world, we sit, drive, fly and buy our food in the supermarket.
We no longer need a 'hunter, gatherer' body in the Western world.
That's why we have a growth industry in exercise.
It's no longer something we do to survive, it's something we force ourselves to do.(and some don't)
The western world is also suffering from obesity, as our bodies still operate on the idea that we should eat what we see and store it in case there is a famine on the way. Mankind was programmed to eat fatty proteins to survive which we no longer need in the West, this created the success of MacDonalds
This has also led to a growth eating disorders where the mind is unable to percieve how the body really looks.
Every problem we are faced with on a daily basis, big and small, results in evolutional changes. We adapt to deal with new experiences. Adaptation is evolution.

annie-

i agree with your description of the changes induced by modern technology.

BUT, i am not sure if these environmental changes are leading to evolution.

i can imagine a scenario in which we have not evolved in the past 300,000 years.

i think that homo sapiens evolved around 300,000 yrs ago. now, i think that i could argue that genetically we have not changed since then.

i think of our ongoing technological advancement as the building on top of the work of predecessors. i do not think that we necessarily need to be getting smarter and smarter.

i think that humans thousands of yrs ago could have had the brain power to conceive of today's technology IF they had today's work already behind them.

if you look at today's society, you will notice that genes that promote "intelligence", which are presumably contained in "smart" people, are not propagated in more copies than genes that do not promote "intelligence". this is b/c smart people reproduce less, so fewer gene copies are delivered into the global human gene pool...
so, i do not see that there is any selective pressure that is leading to differential survival of gene copies for intelligence that FAVORS those genes that tend to increase intelligence.

with regard to physical strength, even though we are not as physically active as we were a long time ago, we are not evolving towards tinier bodies. there is no selective pressure that leads to a greater number of gene copies that promote small physical size.

now, with all the pollution and toxins, there are likely more mutations occurring all over the place... now, mutations provide a means for differential selection. however, without a selective pressure, these mutations will not cause any long term change or evolution...

%-| ?

Evolution isn't just physical.
We have adapted to chances over that period of time.
Otherwise we wouldn't be here still
Take a prisoner in a concentration camp, adapt to survive is evolution of person and such things are happening all the time to different people
Adaptation and evolution isn't only about the human form

"i do not think that we necessarily need to be getting smarter and smarter."
I don't think it merely means smarter and smarter
Is an adapted virus smarter?
A virus can appear to look the same, as can an insect, but they have adapted interiorly to insecticides and anti biotics.
Is the term mutation merely another form of evolving?
i'd say so, any changes come from mutation.
some work, some don't.
the ones that don't do not pass on the genes as they usually fail early on.
Evolution, adaptation, mutation does not usually happen in a generation.

First, i'd like to mention that i REALLY wish we could type in different colors

"Evolution isn't just physical."

GOOD POINT like, EVOLUTION OF IDEAS/CULTURE.

"Take a prisoner in a concentration camp, adapt to survive is evolution of person and such things are happening all the time to different people"

BUT, WHATEVER A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL ADAPTS TO AND/OR HOWEVER HE/SHE CHANGES, THIS WILL NOT BE PASSED ONTO HIS/HER OFFSPRING, SO NO EVOLUTION WILL TAKE PLACE.

Adaptation and evolution isn't only about the human form

"I don't think it merely means smarter and smarter
Is an adapted virus smarter?"

I WAS JUST USING INTELLIGENCE AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK IS EVOLVING IN HUMANS. SURE, ANY CHARACTERISTIC CAN EVOLVE!

"A virus can appear to look the same, as can an insect, but they have adapted interiorly to insecticides and anti biotics."

BUT, A VIRUS ONLY ADAPTS IF THERE IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL STRESS THAT LEADS IT TO ADAPT [EG, ANTIBIOTICS].
HUMANS DO NOT HAVE SUCH A STRESS TO DRIVE EVOLUTION.

"Is the term mutation merely another form of evolving?
i'd say so, any changes come from mutation.
some work, some don't."

MUTATION INCREASES DIVERSITY AMONGST DIFFERENT ORGANISMS IN A SPECIES. THIS DIVERSITY PROVIDES BETTER RAW MATERIAL [CONSIDERING THE SPECIES AS A WHOLE] FOR ENVIRONMENTAL STRESSORS TO ACT ON, LEADING TO MORE RAPID EVOLUTION...

PeteY out!

BUT, WHATEVER A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL ADAPTS TO AND/OR HOWEVER HE/SHE CHANGES, THIS WILL NOT BE PASSED ONTO HIS/HER OFFSPRING, SO NO EVOLUTION WILL TAKE PLACE

We do not only pass on physicality to our children, we pass onto them what we have learnt. An ape learns how to use a stick to get at food, that ape will pass that skill onto it's progeny.
skills have evolved without the shape of the animal changing. It's young will have a better chance of food and thus surviving.
The ape had evolved by learning that a stick can bring food.

BUT, A VIRUS ONLY ADAPTS IF THERE IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL STRESS THAT LEADS IT TO ADAPT [EG, ANTIBIOTICS].
HUMANS DO NOT HAVE SUCH A STRESS TO DRIVE EVOLUTION

I'd say again that we are under environmental stresses, Toxic chemicals in air, food and water, and hey WE put them there.
Organophosphates, which are used for weapons of mass destruction, also get sprayed on our food, bodies and houses. The insects are adapting, why not the humans?
what stresses and insect also stresses humans ?

We do not only pass on physicality to our children, we pass onto them what we have learnt. An ape learns how to use a stick to get at food, that ape will pass that skill onto it's progeny.
skills have evolved without the shape of the animal changing. It's young will have a better chance of food and thus surviving.
The ape had evolved by learning that a stick can bring food.

ME-you're right. MEMES is what you're talking about. kinda like genes. meme propagation has emerged.

I'd say again that we are under environmental stresses, Toxic chemicals in air, food and water, and hey WE put them there.
Organophosphates, which are used for weapons of mass destruction, also get sprayed on our food, bodies and houses. The insects are adapting, why not the humans?
what stresses and insect also stresses humans ?

ME-ok. but, if these OP's etc are weeding us out, then we are evolving towards toxin resistance, like viruses and stuff...but that's all that's being selected for...right?

nonabots would become free thinkers and want to be free, why would they want to be slaves when they would be stronger than us? for example, u take the worlds best soldier who is just a killing machine and tried to make him a slave he would retaliate and break free, same with AI they would not want to be slaves when they r stronger.

we will evolve/develope a resistance to those toxins it just takes a while

Centre
For a machine to 'know' that it is a slave means being programmed to know the difference between slavery and freedom.!
A machine is not yet a sentient being, otherwise it is not a machine.
AI does not mean exactly like a human.

Pete
Toxins are just one stress factor, I'd say there were a lot more.
Even the way we live has evolved and become stressful.

center
nanobots will not have higher cognitive capabilities. they will be unable to WANT to be free. they might have a nanobot "consciousness" like maybe an amoeba has a simple "amoeba consciousness", but nothing close to enough to WANT anything like freedom.

annie
you have a point. if our increasingly stressful modern life weeds out the stress intolerant people who can't handle it, then those who can adapt will pass on genes for better modern-society-stress tolerance.

Petey

I suppose that is one answer to stressers on the environment, unfortunately it takes generations to adapt.
I wonder if the stressors on humans have now become so fast that we do not have time to adapt.
If the world changes slowly adaptation can happen, but if it speeds up, as in the 20th century, we cannot adapt quickly enough perhaps
I wonder if evolution is about extinction rather than improvements.
Models of extinction exist in the past, both in terms of physicality (dinosaurs) and cultures (Rome).
Is the whole point of evolution that we become extinct and 'allow' the surviving form to take over ?
Will the planet end up with insects or virus's at the top of the chain?
just a thought

In a way, illness is above us already.
Take Cancer for instance, and alzheimers and things like that.
We have no cure, they get you and take you in a lot of instances, They are the fittest at the moment.

I agree with what Annie says about the stressors being many and frequent so we dont have a chance to adapt as something else comes along soon after.

I am not hungry, but feel I need to eat something.
How Bizarre.

Hi peteY!

Am I still invited into your FREETHINKERS GUILD? (:^.
I'm on-line at home! I can participate, contribute, and keep up with what's going on now .

I can't stay long, as you're probably trying to call me right about now and my phone line is tied up. When you get here, you'll have to show me around this site a bit more. C'ya.

Oh, and if the offer still stands, I officially accept your offer for membership into the GUILD.

imagiNe

I believe everyone is welcome, so I will unofficially welcome you to our gang.

Eating not hungry ? = comfort
I do it all the while !

we might not evolve to not get a disease but we do start to think in a way to prevent it happining, so we do live like 3 times longer than before they had these sort of things, ie people used to die from hepetites but now we get injected so we dont get it so we live longer, is this evolution? not a physical evolution but a mental inteligance evolution

Good idea.
We have evolved that way.

The apendix gets me.
Why do we still have it if we have evolved not to need it

because most of these diseases havnt beeen around for that long and it takes the human race centuries if not milenia to evovle against something, take a look at the evolution of fish, they had gills, then started developing lungs but as far as i know they were both present at the same time so they lived in the water and land but took longer just to live on land, so we just got learned about the disease soon some will get it and some will not get it (naturally that is), soon none will get it but till then we must relly on medicine

MANDA:
you asked:
The apendix gets me.
Why do we still have it if we have evolved not to need it?

my answer:
We still have an appendix because there has not been any selective pressure to get rid of it. in other words, there has never been any survival advantage to NOT having appendices.
well, i shouldn't say "any" b/c i think it'd help not to have appendices, b/c that would make it impossible to die from acute appendicitis. but, since we still have appendices, any selective pressure to remove them has been too weak.

man, i'm too smart!

hi susY!

what are saying about JOINING us, you're one of the co-founders of the freethinkers guild!

PeteY !

annie

you wrote:
I wonder if evolution is about extinction rather than improvements.
Models of extinction exist in the past, both in terms of physicality (dinosaurs) and cultures (Rome).

my RESPONSE--EVOLUTION IS ABOUT BOTH. IT'S ABOUT SIMULTANEOUS WEEDING OUT OF THE "WEAKER" AND CONTINUATION OF THE "STRONGER"

YOU WROTE:
Is the whole point of evolution that we become extinct and 'allow' the surviving form to take over ?

MY RESPONSE--EVOLUTION IS SIMPLY THE CHANGING OF A SPECIES' GLOBAL GENE POOL [= DIFFERENTIAL DISTRIBUTION OF DIFFERENT ALLELES] OVER TIME.
THERE IS NO "POINT" REALLY.
THE ONLY POINT OF EVOLUTION IS THE DRIVING FORCE.
WHAT *CAN* SURVIVE, WILL SURVIVE.
WHAT *CAN* REPRODUCE, WILL REPRODUCE.

THERE IS NO END POINT.
NO DIRECTION EXCEPT FOR THAT DICTATED BY SURVIVAL ADVANTAGES.

you wrote:
Will the planet end up with insects or virus's at the top of the chain?

MY RESPONSE--IF WE HAVE WW3, THEN SIMPLER/SMALLER ORGANISMS, WHICH ARE HARDIER, MIGHT RULE THE EARTH.

petey out