h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

They're not going to make any more money off the workstations; they'll all be running OpenOffice 1.1 and Mozilla 1.3.

...

CZ who runs Linux just realised there's no smiley

Yes, the licence is usually the way that profits are made. It isn't just M$ who hide the important stuff such as the actual price though.

Oh, I thought someone else owned the penguin motif...

[racks brains]

NuMega???

I suppose there could be more than one though, even in the software industry.

Aren't we nice, making more backlog for poor Mistdancer.

Since it's the middle of the GMT night again, it's probably time for another plot summary.

U211780 Symphony is banned from h2g2 (apparently for the "crime" of being LeKZ)

There appears to be some dispute over elements of this:
1. That there was an original crime on which subsequent "crimes" are based.
2. That this is the reason for Symphony's ban.
3. That it is true.
4. That Symphony has even been banned at all.

Looking at the evidence, such as it is, for each of them:

1. Unfortunately this one is going to have to be taken as given since it is the italics' definition.

2. The reason?
There is an eye-witness(?) account from Mistdancer who might reasonably be expected to be an upstanding member of the community. No-one has come up with any example of why Mistdancer should not be believed despite disputing their version of events. By definition Symphony would not be able to comment.
[circumstantial] No denial from the italics.
[circumstantial] The Symphony account has not been seen to do anything wrong in its own right - again no counter-examples from researchers or staff.

3. LeKZ-ness?
There is an eye-witness account from the presumably reliable Mistdancer again that Symphony is in the UK. No-one has stated any grounds for disbelieving Mistdancer.
There are similar accounts from associates of LeKZ claiming that Symphony could not be LeKZ. There have been previously stated grounds for not entirely believing these witnesses but no-one seems to have any specific basis for challenging their statements this time.
[circumstantial] On the negative side is the Friends list association but that in itself has never been stated to be a crime and there is a plausible reason for it. Plus other people have done what would seem to be worse things with their Friends list.
[circumstantial] On the plus side the few postings from Symphony do not seem to match known LeKZ styles (or at least no-one has pointed out an example). The lack of postings is itself also not in keeping with the assertion of Symphony being LeKZ.

4. Banned?
There is an eye-witness account from Mistdancer etc etc.
[circumstantial] No denial from the italics.
[circumstantial] Symphony has not been seen to post from the account since.
[circumstantial] There was a request from h2g2 Support regarding bounced emails (<./>T298616</.&gt. Such emails would not normally be sent unless something was going on. Symphony had not visibly tried to join any volunteer groups or won any competitions and no-one has come up with an alternative reason for that request.
There is independent testimony from SEF that the Symphony account is indeed banned.

Nice bullet points...

They are a bit big aren't they but there was a full moon out last time I looked.

So, tell me again. Why are we all standing around here? Even the cocoa is weak.

Is there going to be a parade?

Is there going to be a march?

Is there any chance that either would make any difference?

Does anyone have any idea what would constitute undeniable proof of anything? And, if so, what difference it would make?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin, if the pin is really just the head of another angel?

Barton

In my case it's more like a sit-in but you can stand if you feel more comfortable like that.

What sort of a parade would you like? I suppose the closest thing would be something like during the Iraq ban on speech where people went round the site (metaphorically) with protest banners in their nicknames. There isn't an official place to protest because the italics chose not to follow the transgressions procedure properly. That's another part of the complaint although some people would rather see it as evidence against anything having happened at all.

A march across h2g2 would probably count as spamming and give the italics just the excuse they need to ban all dissenters. This wouldn't be fair but the italics have shown no sign of being fair. A physical march on Bush House is actually quite an interesting idea and probably very embarrassing for the italics to have all the rest of their BBC colleagues be able to see out of the window that some portion of the public thinks the h2g2 staff have behaved despicably.

I think the money laundering type proofs from Symphony should be enough on the non-LeKZ-ness issue. If the BBC reject what every bank and much of government would accept as reasonable proof while reporting stories on much flimsier evidence, then the blatant double-standards should completely discredit them. Again this brings the rest of the BBC in against the h2g2 staff. It would be nice if Mistdancer could state when the email and snail mail versions of such proofs were actually sent. The computer problems may have interfered with the email if it had to be seen to have been sent from Symphony's email account rather than Mistdancer's (a rather petty distinction but a possible one).

Are your angels Klein bottles? Do they have feet and heads and in the expected proportions? What counts as dancing? In the atomic/molecular sense things can dance (Brownian motion) on and off any number of other things within a container, eg the 2 hydrogen atoms might be the feet and the oxygen atom the head of a molecule of water. Hydrogen bonds are not fixed but loose associations such that molecules can dance around each other (very much head to foot) changing partners all the time. You never said your angels had to be dancing simultaneously on the pin.

PS Does anyone know the address of the correct building for the italics and at which window one should wave placards for best effect? I think ritual h2g2 T-shirt burning would probably be going too far. Using large sad-face-smiley masks might be a possibility for making the direction of such a protest clear if the correct windows (h2g2 and bosses) can't be established.

PPS In case anyone was daft enough to be still wondering, I like the content of my earlier bullet points too (otherwise I wouldn't have put it there).

Why any suspicion of a Lekz connection arose still appears to be a matter of complete speculation. Unless I've missed anything, it seems that no-one who has read Symphony's postings has here stated any particular indication of similarity with Lekz's writing.

It does seem rather peculiar - the presence of a UK entity called Symphony is pretty definitely confirmed by Mistdancer, and there seems to be no reason to doubt that evidence, and unless there is serious evidence that UK-Symphony is posting on behalf of Lekz it's hard to see why any action has been taken. (If there was any evidence that Symphony was wholly or principally posting from outside the UK, I'd have *thought* that would have been pointed out by now.)

Trying to be objective, I can understand that *if* TPTB did have absolutely rock-solid evidence of the identity of S and L, they might not bother with the transgressions procedures - having loads of people arguing about whether someone is or isn't Lekz doesn't serve much purpose *if* there is objective evidence that they are, but I'd at least have thought that some explanation would have been forthcoming, and if there *was* strong evidence that seemed to contradict what Mistdancer has said, I'd have thought TPTB would have already been in touch with Mistdancer to try and square up the various pieces of information, and it doesn't seem that that has happened.

I would hope that things become clearer in the near future, but that seems to be up to TPTB to at least partly show their hand.

Personally I am not saying in any way that I do not belive Mistdancer it is just that I do not know them, therefore I cannot know if they are reliable or not.

As I have not seen any evidence personally I am reserving judgement until I have been able to see something for myself that would prove if Symphony is banned or not.

I have seen definitive evidence that Symphony is banned - but I take it that you don't like my statements any better than Mistdancer's.

The thing is I do not know either of you, that is not to say I do not trust what you say, just that I do not know you well enough to make that decsion.

Brief update :

The email with the evidence hasn't gone out yet because of Symphony's computer problems. I can't send it from here, as then it'll just show my IP header and email address and not theirs. Kind of defeats the purpose. Their computer should be fixed by tonight, so they can email out again tomorrow.

I've offered to send evidence of the ban to anyone who wants it. My email is on my space. I'll keep making the offer, and if anyone chooses to take me up on it, they'll have all the proof they need. If they don't .... I have such a sense of deja-vu

SEF : Nice bullet points

For what it's worth (not much, I'm sure) I believe that Symphony was banned for the reason stated. I also believe that reason to be false. Since this thread was started I've been going through LeKZ's posts (a very enlightening read) and have found absolutely no reason to think that Symphony is really LeKZ. I believe as well that I have absolutely no influence on this decision. But I am interested, so for the time being (while hopefully Symphony contacts TPTB and clears this up and returns here) I'm pulling up a beanbag chair and sitting in as well.

CZ

Mistdancer:

If you are happy to forward proof to me my email address is [email protected]

Check your email, Ferrettbadger.

Will check when I get home.

"There isn't an official place to protest because the italics chose not to follow the transgressions procedure properly."

"A march across h2g2 would probably count as spamming and give the italics just the excuse they need to ban all dissenters."

A large part of the point of the transgressions procedure was to minimise the work and inconvenience for the Italics when they implement a lifetime ban. It was specifically designed so that conversations about the ban would be concentrated in one place and not bother the rest of the community.

The Italics have clearly signalled, by not using that procedure, that they don't mind the extra inconvenience to themselves and the rest of the community brought on by conversations abiout this popping up in Community Soapbox, Askh2g2, Peer Review, Natalie's personal space, Abi's personal space, Mina's personal space, etc. etc. etc.

May I suggest that there are enough people who are interested that each one could start one conversation about this in a different place - that wouldn't be spamming.

It may be worth reminding the staff why the transgressions procedure was a good idea in the first place...