h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

'Ignore the theology [and reality and turn your back on your family and friends and give up your worldly goods {although this bit seems not to be necessary to some around here} and believe many mutually contradictory things with all your heart] and repent. It is the only way to Heaven.'




I, for one, choose to do good for its own sake, not in the expectation of payment (especially considering that the payment seems to be eternity in the company of hateful people.) Best wishes with your Heaven-seeking, Good News. I confess I don't understand how any joy, eternal or otherwise, can be expected in the company of such as Justin and Sam, or even in the presence of the God you describe. But, best wishes.

To get back to evolution, I found this interesting;

Life on the Edge

The limits of life on Earth are much broader than previously thought. Examples of life at extreme conditions include:

Hottest: 235.4 F--bacteria from deep sea vents

Coldest: 5 F--microalgae in Antarctic rocks

Deepest: Bacteria, two miles underground in rocks

Most acidic: Unclassified organisms growing on gypsum in caves at pH 0

Highest radiation: 5 million rads--Deinococcus radiodurans (bacteria)

Saltiest: Bacteria, 30 percent salt environment

Deepest and Highest pressure: 1200 atm--at bottom of Marianas Trench (ocean)

Farthest: Moon, Streptococcus mitus (from human source) from Surveyor III camera after three years unprotected on lunar surface

Source: NASA

"All you have to do is repent and be born-again. Ignore the theology and repent. It is the only way to Heaven."

God gave us this unique, utterly incredible minds that are able to grasp the entire universe, the only things that make us different from any other animal, the thing that makes us "special". And just as it starts to come down to the Big Questions, God, everlasting life, we are to abandon these magnificent creations of ours and just not think?

Good_News, you are asking a lot of people, to trust what you are saying out of blind faith. With statements like that *they will not believe you*. Therefore, aren't you doing a disservice to your Lord?

Ste

And of course the stupidest thing is that none of this is The Word of God - they are simply bible translations handed down throughout time, written and re-written by men living a couple thousand years ago . . .

Why the heck do you believe these translations, Good News?

Because you are not saying you actually believe the Word of God.

You are saying you believe what some people wrote way back when and stating it as being the Word of God.

The bible was written by men. Who were these guys? Why do you trust them?


az

Re: Life on the Edge.

Deinococcus radiodurans actually grows quite happily in nuclear reactors!

Life is amazing. Diversity and variation are key to everything.

Ste

<>

That doesn't seem contradictory to you?

"Harden" - nice adjective for "sending people to eternal pain and torment for doing what he always knew (and allowed and made) they would do."

If god exists, and he is omnipotent, and he sends people to hell for not believing in him, then he is evil.

F135418?thread=843339




az

"Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

Paul is using false reasoning. Clay is not animate. Has God made us in order to condemn us to an eternal torture?

Good News, do you really understand what you're saying??

"All you have to do is repent and be born-again."

Sorry, but you've just quoted:
"Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."

So is Paul wrong, or are you wrong?

" Ignore the theology and repent."

So you wish to quote the bible and then tell me to ignore it? is it just me or is this just plain silly?

My vote is with "silly".

Hi Good_News

Oh no, not the trollocks about free will again. I suggest that you re-read your own posts. To summarise:

1. You are infected with Sin, because of the Fall, before you are born....
2. You cannot turn to God unless God calls you out of sin.
3. God has chosen some people (based on His own Divine Will) to be pulled out of sin.
4. Nothing you do or say can convince God to choose you, He just does it.... or doesn't.
5. According to you and your kin 'Sin' is a state, not just an adjective for actions against God's will.

Thus you cannot sin voluntarily, you are in Sin, whether you like it or not. That is until God apparently randomly decides you are worth saving and then you can be born again.

Free will is a concept that denies God and must therefore be a human (or possibly diabolic) invention. Let me demonstrate:

1. God is omnipresent. He is everywhere, He is in everything and thus must be in you and me, despite my apostate and unsaved state.

2. God is omniescent. He knows everything that has been, is now and shall be. Thus our every action and intent was known to Him even before creation. Thus we were saved or damned even before we were born.

3. God is omnipotent. He is all powerful and nothing can happen without His will. Nothing, not anything, nowt, nada... get it? The Fall, Sin, every action of every being since creation.

A God who is triple-O cannot grant free will. He cannot place something beyond His presence, knowledge or control - for He is everything.

The Jesuits have known this for hundreds of years and refer to it as the most dangerous heresy - for they can neither deny nor defeat it. This is why the Roman Catholic church emphasises obedience to God's will as the most important tenet of faith, not salvation.

You evangelicals are just fooling yourself. You have no choice in your salvation. As you have said yourself your God will either choose you or He won't, and He did it at the very moment of Creation - six thousand years ago. You cannot be born again unless you are chosen out by your God and nothing you can do can influence that.

Prove me wrong please...

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Add me to the 'just silly' list please.



Math, you should drop your post over at the other God thread, it's a good one and they've strayed off topic.

<>

Only if it's "just silly" to tell lies about dead people.

Can you "see" dead people too?

The wean.

Hi DrJ

They've seen versions of that post before a number of times over the last three years. Don't worry about them going off topic it tends to bend back around again, reinvigorated by the diversion.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Yes, when they're 'on display' at a funeral home for example. If you'd cease the self-application of those cranial enemas you might see them too.

Hey Dr J, long time no see. Have you had any time to think about our one-celled friend?

One of the best explanations I have ever read.

Well, as Matholwch said, he's been doing it for years.

Good, isn't he?


az

GN - Post 64:
>>"In 2 Samuel, David’s child dies. But he is comforted by the fact that he will see his child in Heaven. This suggests again that children will go to Heaven (as they cannot choose to accept or refuse Christ)."

Well, David's child *certainly* couldn't choose to accept or refuse Christ, unless he it had some pretty scary psychic powers.
Or a time machine.


GN - Post 73:
>>"All Christians believe that you cannot come to God unless drawn by the Holy Spirit. And God has chosen who He will draw to Him"
>>"Calvinism humbles people. It teaches that man is so morally depraved that he cannot know God unless God wills it. God is soverign and man is weak."

GN - Post 80:
>>"God created the human race and He knew that it will become sinful. So He chooses to save some people. He does not lead anybody into sin but will help pull some out of sin. This might seem unfair but then, who are we to argue?"

GN Post 64:
>>"He has made is so easy to get into Heaven..."

Hmmm.


One rather puzzling one:
GN Post 78:
>>"You have heard of Him so you have no excuse. Good News told you. And I gave you some Biblical evidence that you might go to Heaven if you had never heard of Him but were 'virtuous'. "

Is this a case of someone forgetting which sock-puppet account they were posting under, or just someone who likes to refer to themselves in the Third Person?
Despite it being kind of unsettling either way, Potholer wishes to know the answer.
And so do I.

Ooooh, hadn't picked up on GN's 'third person' whoopsy there, Potholer.

Interesting.


az

That last one's a good point - I don't think anyone picked it up. Maybe GN was Sammie's sock-puppet but when Sammie realised his arrogance and un-Christian bigrotry was alienating everyone he switched to GN who has been seen as a less militant and prejudiced version of Sam. Hmm...