h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Are you sure that most people lose their virginity between 11 and 15? Have you got some stats to back that up? I realise that the UK has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in Europe but I find that hard to believe.

That does seem somewhat early to me and my peer group at the time- I believe the average age for us was about eighteen.

I'd have thought 11-15 was a bit early, too...but then I was didtressingly late . Maybe it's the Californian sun. Or maybe emr hangs around with a bad crowd.

>>Also I find part of the fun of sexual kinks is that they are private and somewhat taboo.

The privacy issue is relevant. To what extent should public bodies (ie schools) be involved in the private sphere? I think there's a balance. Certainly it's within the public interest for schools have a role as regards the health aspects of sex (contraception, STDs)...and this includes the mental health aspects (relationships, acceptance of diverse sexualities) - but aren't the details of what we do in our bedrooms/kitchens/parks/clubs up to us to discover on our own? As T2T says, a hobby.

Sorry, where did 11-15 get mentioned? I feel like I'm missing something. I'm 17; most of my friends are 16-18. I know quite a few who are having sex/have had sex, but many also have not.

I don't know where the age rage came from either. Apologies for skimming too hastily.

There's an interesting challenge in sex education. No matter where the median age lies for the onset of sexual activity, there's obviously a spread. For obvious health reasons education has to focus on providing critical information - sometimes to children who aren't yet capable in fully engaing in the emotional aspects of sexual relationships. And there's a major spread in emotional capabilities, too.

Given that, its not difficult to see a) why education tends to concentrate on the plumbing aspects and b) why it doesn't (ahem) probe too deeply into the various recreational alternatives on offer. Sorry if this seems a little conservative - but I think that pitching sex education right is a genuinely tricky problem. That said - I fully agree that it should emphasise sex as a normal, pleasurable, shame free activity. It should admit to non-penetrative possibilities, including masturbation (which is, after all, the most (ahem) widespread sexual activity of all. And obviously it should treat as all sexualities as normal and equal.

Sorry - I couldn't resist the gratuitous ahems. If you pass up things like that, they revoke your comedy licence.

Homosexuals should not feel pressured by hetero friends that is wrong wrong wrong. Nobody should feel pressured to have sex at all that is something schools should teach us. There is nothing wrong with not having a boyfriend or girlfriend or staying virgin until 99 if someone wants.

I'm fairly sure the average age for first time sex in Britain is 16 for boys, 17 for girls and according to the LazyBoy record, though I know not of their source, it is 15 worldwide - by which I assume they mean developed countries.

I agree that pitching sex education is incredibly tricky due to the individual needs of folk, which is why the impetus should lie with parents. Of course, parents suck so understandably the schools need to be there to fill in the gaps etc. but I don't think that it's a schools place to delve deeper into sex lives of the students beyond what sex is, what different types of orientation there are, how to be safe and what the responsibilities are.

I also agree that it should not be focussed on purely hetero penetrative sex, in fact I believe the UK curriculum now focusses on oral and digital (ie with hands) as a way to curtail people from going all the way. It's all about having fun but not doing anything you're not ready for. But you still can't guarantee what kind of overly liberal/conservative, sexual prude/deviant is gonna be teaching it, no matter what the syllabus may be. Teaching about kinks may lead to unnecessary biased, it's something best discovered personally.

yep, apologies for the 15 bit, but growing up in Essex and teaching in inner citys, it does kind of seem that way to me

I thinkt he average age in the UK when people first have sex is 17, but given the amont of people who were in their 20s, / 30s and beyond, I'm guessign that a large percentage is still 15 and under

>>I believe the UK curriculum now focusses on oral and digital

My own understanding is that the standard of sex education is patchier than it should be. It tends to be more thorough in the nice, middle class areas. Incidentally - it seems to be no less good in Catholic schools, which regularly turn a blind eye to church doctrine. (And so they should! It's not as if the church is actually funding the schools).

We need Dr Z around. He's taught sex.

Ah, yes. Essex - where WH Smiths sell cards saying "Happy 30th Birthday, Grandma."

My experience is that Essex is actually far, far, far away from the reputation it has. Be it either an example of third wave feminism in action, for all it's good and bad reasons, or because of a determination to shove off some of the clichés, Essex girls really aren't at all as promiscuous as they're made out to be. Indeed, if the rest of the country really were more prudent than Essexians then we'd have a very pure country. In fact the more I speak to girls from the other counties, particularly the northern shires, the more it seems that Essex is merely villified to stop everyone's attention to turning to the real loose women. According to my Durhamite flatmate, a girl or two left his secondary school due to pregnancy in first year, that's 12 years old. And as he went up the school the numbers steadily rose. Perhaps another reason that more about sex isn't taught in school is because they haven't succesfully accomplished that part yet.

In the 5 years I've been having sex I've only slept with two women, both of whom I was in a (mostly) stable and loving relationship with. The high majority of my female friends from school were over the legal age limit when they first had sex and quite a few waited even longer.

How they dress and talk and the general gutterness associated with them is not entirely untrue, but shockingly the reputation is far removed from the reality (with many an exception, obviously.)

It's true that people can be made grandparents quite young. My best mate's dad was 40 when he became a grandad (but he was the one who'd had children 'young', my friend was 21). There aren't enough school age mums, or just left school age mums in my area to be noticeable. Obviously I won't say there aren't any just because I haven't seen them.

I have to admit that giving birth in Basildon did mean that at 24 I was considered a 'geriatric' mother - Basildon at the time having the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in the UK (the average age for a first time mum at the time was 26). Doesn't mean they were all shagging at 12 though.

Most of the people I've spoken to about age were around 14 if they were underage (and not otherwise interfered with), but the majority were much older.

Hmmm... being a father of two daughters, one old enough to decide for herself and the other just apporaching secondary school, I tend to get a bit old testament about this whole subject.

I have taught both of them that "teenage boys are led by their deeks, not their brains, they do not love you and won't stick around to clean up their mess".

I have also told them that the first boyfriend they bring home will be nailgunned to the fence as a warning pour les autres. Neither have ever brought a boyfriend home... me bad dad. There again neither are pregnant (...yet...).

On the more positive side both girls have had home school sex and love education (ongoing and appropriate to their age groups) - parents are responsible in our mind, not schools.

And here is the rub - why do so many parents expect the schools to teach their children this most important lesson, and then blame the state when little Britney is popping a sprog at 14? Perhaps we should look to how we can support the parents in educating their own kids?

Blessings,
Matholwch .

J (12)vhas been taught at home as well - and he knows there's more than one way of 'loving', and that there's not really any 'right' way.

I'm not old-fashioned enough to tell him that he should be in love with the person he's with all the time, but that being with one person (or two if that's what floats your boat) to the exclusion of others makes for a better experience than flitting about from one to another. And he knows how I feel about cheating because I've stopped watching EastEnders because of it.

>>why do so many parents expect the schools to teach their children this most important lesson

It's a good question...but the fact is that they do - hence the importance of sex education in the curriculum, whether all families need it or not. Surely far more effective than quixotic attempts to change parental attitudes? Obviously there's a positive feedback loop, though: If it's taught in schools, parents feel thay can abbrogate responsibility. Remember also - Britain *is* a particularly sexually repressed culture. It's not something 'we' feel comfortable talking about with our kids.

No - I shouldn't stereotype Essex for comedic purposes (I used to live there, incidentally). Nevertheless...from The Bard of Barking:

I was twenty one years when I wrote this song/
Im twenty two now, but I wont be for long/
People ask when will you grow up to be a man/
But all the girls I loved at school/
Are already pushing prams

(anyone spot the Paul Simon influence, incidentally?)

I spent part of today tip-exing out graffitti from the repoduction pages from a set of Year 7 science text books!


I've left my nat. curriculum framwork in my car, but, according to the QCA (qualificaions and curriculm association) Year 7 science is meant to teach these objectives ....

* the structure and function of the human male and female reproductive organs
* that fertilisation involves the fusion of the nuclei of sperm and egg
* that the fertilised egg divides into 2, 4, 8, etc cells as it passes down the oviduct
* that sperm and egg cells are specially adapted for their functions
* that male and female nuclei contain the characteristics of male and female parents respectively
* that egg cells are released from the ovaries at regular (approximately monthly) intervals
* that menstruation is a monthly cycle which stops during pregnancy
* that the stages in the menstrual cycle are controlled by hormones
* that changes in hormone concentrations result in the development of secondary sexual characteristics and emotional changes at puberty


mechanics of it are barely mentioned (the txt book to go with this scheme of work has 2 diagrams, one of a woman and man wrapped up and one of a cut-away (whinces) of the genetals during intercourse

Ah but let us remember that this is a) year 7 and b) science. Is there not a seperate curriculum for PSE/health lessons; this surely makes it purely a biological investigation.

Well if it's pictures you want....there's an excellent book by Claire Rayner, aimed at the under 5s.

Our sixth form sex session was called 'Moral Education'

as far as I can see, there is nothing in the Year 7 scheme of work for citizenship stuff.

There is definitly no more mention of sex ed in science until GCSE,


In the last school I was at, the citizenship syalbus only mentions it in Year 10

That sounds relatively similar to what we were taught in grade 7 biology (12 years old), though some of it, such as hormones, cell division, etc, we haven't learned until this year, grade 11, in Advanced Placement biology. Other than those two years, every year since grade 5 we've had "health" education, primarily centring on saying "no" to cigarettes, alcohol and other drugs, and sex - and if you absolutely *must* have sex, be sure to use a condom because you're at risk for pregnancy and STDs, and we tend to be given scare tactics as to what terrible things will happen to you if you drink/smoke/have sex/etc.

I suppose, as curricula go, it could be worse - our district and city are relatively conservative, but we're also not so much influenced by the fundamentalist religion of the Bible Belt.

Well in my school we were taught biological sex based things in first year (11/12 years old) as well as menstruation, wet dreams, general puberty on both sides. The girls were all taken during a PE lesson for a more in detail womanly assembley about womany things later in first year. We had drugs and alcohol (primiarily telling us not to do either, also telling us the effects, long term and short term and trying to convince us that people only take drugs when they 'want to self-destruct'.) In second year all the girls&boys were split up for a PSE lesson and we were taught how to have sex in what is one of the most laughable memories I have of school - mainly because the teacher insisted on calling a penis a willy.

That was all in PSE (Personal and Social Education, sounds similar to health class), along with debates on euthanasia, abortion, also stuff about bullying, friendship, society, minor bits on politics and other stuff. Then every year from third year (13/14 years old) we had a few lessons on sex ed in PSE, based on a variety of things - how to put on a condom, what other types of protection are on offer, what to do if you get an STI, what the symptoms are, smear tests, checking for breast&testicular cancer. As things progressed we had more in depth talks about specifics and we'd have people in to talk to us about AIDS etc. I have a memory of us also discussing various positions, but that sounds a lil odd. It may have happened, it may not have; fairly convinced it did. We were never taught as if sex was something we should avoid, but it was stressed to us not to rush.

There was never any attempt to pretend that it's something only married couples would do, though it was said that there is nothing wrong with that kind of mentality - it seemed to be as if they were openly addressing the adolescent notion that virginity is something that you need to get rid of as soon as possible. All in all I was quite happy with my sex education at school though not enough was taught of LGBT in my opinion. And I still don't think that kinks should be taught, they're better learned.

Bible belt schooling is scary. My friend from Virginia, we first met on an international conference in DC and NY and half way through the conference she had asked me what contraception was. She was 16 at the time, I found that very disconcerting. It was also quite amusing 'cause 2 minutes previously while paying for lunch a condom slipped out of my wallet. I still carried it around to be safe then, before I realised that I just can't do flings. Ah such naive, happy times.