h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

hi both

Leaving in a couple of hours to spend the weekend at Rügen so I'll mostly catch up later.

Jank: On the ontology of drains. I had assumed self-rodding so the analogy may not work though given the OCP has compatibilism as:

'[A] view about determinism and freedom that claims that we are sometimes free.....even though all events are determined.

it may.

Kant: I suspect that Russell as good empiricist is somewhat unimpressed by much of Kant.

anschauung: See Quine on the 'indeterminacy of tranlation'. In philosophy the problem occurs in the /same/ language as professional philosophers 'slice 'n' dice' meaning to make it appear that they have something unique to say.

However, I came across this definition:

[D]irect or immediate intuition or perception of sense data with little or no rational interpretation.

There may still be a different kind of indeterminacy of translation here in that the meaning of terms may be temporally incommensurable.

Hegel and his ilk: Give me CLIBES. No more needs to be said

A small break: A good idea. The consumption of too much semantic and metaphysical twaddle can produce unfortunate side like confusing nonsense with sense.

If you haven't read it already I'd recommend Lewis Carroll's 'Through the Looking Glass' as an antidote.

Lo-Fi/Hi-Fi: The problem with your argument is one of 'incommensurability'.

Sweet: I find their post glam stuff quite listenable but they are not likely to supplant anyone on my current, or indeed any future, DID.

Psi -Unfortunately out of time so I'll have to get back on why I think debate on hard causal determinism is largely 'pointless'. (Something to do with it being neither falsifiable nor verifiable probably.)

This should not preclude some expansion of your position of why you think it is not.....

Anyhow, being picked in the next 20 mins. so catch you later....



bsy

Hi both

Excessively busy in the world for now.

bsy

hey Bored

no worries, hope the yeast is (mis)behaving in interesting ways.

however i do have visions right now of your hurtling around the lab shouting "It's alive I tell you. ALIVE......!!!!!!"

hi jank

Not just work but the whole Dies Natalis Solis Invicti/Hogmanay thing wrapped up as Christian festival is such fun.

The YACs stuff isn't that interesting but I'm mucking about on the side with protein folding simulations that are.

Compatibilism: Oh dearie me.

bsy

hi psi

'That article looks like it might be interesting........ it might be just the thing to
move things on.'

One difficulty might be that it is not clear whether Kölbel sees (implicit) indexical sentences as taking truth values which Joyce seems to.

'I agree that Free Will as a term could be imagined as referring to any member of a set whose sole criterion for membership was family resemblance to at least one other member and which includes various flavours of libertarian and compatibilist versions'

From your set inclusion criterion one could construct a set that contains an orange, a rubber duck, a banana, the planet Earth and an ostrich. I'm am unclear what the utility of any set so constructed would be.

Also I'm not really clear whether you think there is a 'family resemblance' between libertarianism and compatibilism and if so, what it is.

'So if you are reluctant to declare on the matter fair enough'.

I'm not 'reluctant to declare' since that implies a position on free will in relation to determinism. I have none.

I think that 'free will' is a term with so many possible denotata that any discussion,not based on an agreed definition, would be incoherent. I would be interested to know what you mean by it.

'I don't think the precarious status of the deterministic thesis renders the debate pointless though.'

I don't think the the status of determinism is precarious rather I think its ontological status is unknowable. I see no pointing in building elaborate philosophical superstructures on such an uncertain ground

bsy

Hi both,

I hope you've had a good Christmas and are looking forward to the New Year.

Bx4,

I've had a look at that Kölbel paper now, and I still think it might help move us on. Or tangle us in more of those knots, one or the other.

"One difficulty might be that it is not clear whether Kölbel sees (implicit) indexical sentences as taking truth values which Joyce seems to."

When discussing the advantages of indexical relativism, Kölbel says the following:
"The propositions expressed by sentence tokens are propositions with absolute truth-values that are in no way metaphysically suspect." (pp 302, last paragraph).

"From your set inclusion criterion one could construct a set that contains an orange, a rubber duck, a banana, the planet Earth and an ostrich. I'm am unclear what the utility of any set so constructed would be."
Sorry, that's false since my criterion is a conjunction of the family resemblance condition and that the set contains various flavours of libertarian and compatibilist versions of free will. All we have to do is agree on some versions, and the set generation is sensible in my view.

"Also I'm not really clear whether you think there is a 'family resemblance' between libertarianism and compatibilism and if so, what it is."
According to my set generation criterion, no such resemblance is necessary. That said, they both purport to give an account of the connection between thought and action. In each, the will plays a central role.

"I think that 'free will' is a term with so many possible denotata that any discussion,not based on an agreed definition, would be incoherent. I would be interested to know what you mean by it."
I mean the ability we have to choose to act according to our desires.

"I don't think the the status of determinism is precarious rather I think its ontological status is unknowable."
I would be interested to know why you think it is unknowable rather than unknown.

"I see no pointing in building elaborate philosophical superstructures on such an uncertain ground"
The point is to say something about the nature of free will. I think free will is compatible with determinism in such a way that features of free will obtain even if strict determinism is false.

ttfn

hi both

Travelling to Edinburgh tomorrow for Hogmanay. If I don''t catch you before then have a good one.

Early start so

bsy

Thanks, you too!

Here's another interesting quote from that paper:

"The notion of a content of belief and assertion whose truth-value is relative clearly goes against orthodoxy.19 However, there are no principled reasons why orthodoxy shouldn’t be challenged in this case." (p 310)

dear both,

sorry for radio silence, have been busy with festivities/pd's/Mr Plastic/inlaws.......so my blogging time has been reduced to rants and raves in random directions. i know, should get a better hobby...

and now a bit frazzled waiting to see if my son has appendicitis. hopefully will know in the next few hours.

in the mean time, Happy New Year to you and yours!

Hi Jank,

I hope he gets well soon, however it turns out.

ttfn

dear both,

indeed it was an inflamed appendix, had started to burst 'n all, currently winging its way to some lab somewhere......

patient is doing really well though and should be allowed out tomorrow end of the day. so that's another night in hospital for me on a bed built for a midget! takes me back to those "salad days" sleeping on a tour bus........

hope your New Year's activities were a bit more enjoyable.

ttfn

hi jank

Bad news and good news I guess. If it had burst it would have been much worse. As to the long man in a short bed experience comfort yourself that in earlier days the patient would have been kept in for much longer.

Christmas enjoyable but a bit overcrowded. A good haul on the present front both objective and subjective.....

Hogmanay was indeed fun including the Edinburgh street party. Much more and than during rather abstemious Christmas and partying extended into Ne'erday night as well so something of a today. General state not one to allow coherent philosophical engagement of any kind......so psi will have to wait.

Off to the island to-morrow for a few days days so it'll be 'hair of the dog'. I may be becoming to decrepit for this.

I see that you have been engaging with RosieIV, James42 and Shaker2009 all at once. Not sure that taking on the zealots of two religions and a quasi-religion simultaneously is wise,

Off for a lie down in darkened room.

bsy

dear both,

thank you for your concern and kind words, much appreciated. patient is finally home and doing really well.


"RosieIV, James42 and Shaker2009 all at once"; i found it very usefull for letting off some steam, but will now take my foot off the gas a bit.....


hope your hair of the dog is working, good to hear you're human after all...

ttfn

hi both

Flu

bsy

Get well soon.

dear Bored,

get well soon

hi both

Mostly recovered though still taking it easy and only beck at work part of the time.

psi-

Have not been filosofickally inclined of late so I'll catch up in a couple of days,


jank-

Foot remains firmly on the gas, I see?

bsy

hey Bored!

delighted you're on the mend, that must have been some flu....

and yes my steely resolve is in tatters, am just unable to resist the shiny fings, and arguing the t*** as a result with merry abandon.

tends to be a sign of 2 things; some or other frustration in personal life and realesing some steam. or, am soooo bored without windsurfing i become a grouch.

roll on April when the season opens...


must say though that there were a few rewarding moments, mainly that i was intrigued by this name Norman Finkelstein that kept cropping up whenever Palestine etc is mentioned. now there's a character who has a few things to say, and says them rather well most of the time...

anyhoo, time to stir pots....

ttfn!

hi jank

Pretty much recovered last week but a somewhat peely-wally and overweight doctor considers that someone of 'my age' should have a week during which I should have a 'staged return' to work.Quite fun actually - time to read, playing music,planning summer bike tour. etc.

Unlike you my current frustration level must be quite low (or apathy level high) as don't feel any inclination to get involved at the moment.

Though the Maitreya thread featuring The Man in the Three Cornered Hat is vastly entertaining and 'The biggest Bible Haters' is somewhat surreal -written in a language that appears to be English but which on closer examination....

I agree about Finkelstein I think he make a number of interesting arguments though none that will endear some on the JT

Btw, how is the current iteration of the 'boy band' doing?

bsy