h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Be quiet Tiger. Judaism is for Jews.
The thing about where did God come from, that I'm willing to answer, because that doesn't make me a corruptive 'net influence.

People are by nature limited beings. We have a point where we begin, and where we end,and that's that. (we can expand the bounds a littel by eating alot, but...)

we can only see the present. we can remember the past, or imagine the future, but we can only see now.

take three points in the room. Make a tunnel with your hand. Look at point A. that's the present. now look at point b. you can only see point b, but you can remeber point a. Point c is the future.

thats how people see things.

put your hand down.

thats how God sees.

that's example number one.

God created us. He didn't make us infinite, and there are things we cannot understand, like the absense of time. infinity. and so on.

since we cannot understand the absence of time- (time is a creation)
clearly you cant say God has a beginning since there was no such thing before he created it. Or whatever. I'm bored.

The reason I took so long to get back on is bec I re-crippled myself, and then Arafat died, and places became less safe.
Like: there were around 3 bomb scares in the Central Bus station, which is where my net access usually is.

The weather here is getting really nice. cool, not cold, not hot.

Sheep... I should have known... what else in Australia?

IF your farm is that big, do you live in middle of nowhere?

how do you say 'what's up' in Japanese. (or is that not polite enough?)

back to the moshav, there were no sheep on this one. Just three goats tied in front of someones house. you could hear them down the road.

And the RAbbi was the plumb and jolly type. Grinning benignly while his grandkids attacked him.

What do catholics beleive gets you to heaven? I find the protestant requirements pretty deficient. Never had a catholic to ask.

As for that long ago original question: what is judaism to me... I think we've exhausted relegion. a different time.

matah for now.

To tell you the truth, I'm not actually sure how to say "what's up" in Japanese. It might be too impolite, but I don't really know. You could always be formal and say "what did you do today?" (kyou, nani o shimashita ka?" but I'm not sure about "what's up".
Anyway, Leo, it's good to hear from you. It's always good to hear from both of you, actually and I'm glad you've found a place to get free internet.
I've been interested to hear both your opinions on God. There are a lot more sophisticated views in what you've said than what I could get out of my religion class at school. You ask "Who is God", and they shrug and say "Ask a preist" or "I dunno... some really big dude up in Heaven or wherever..."

As for what merits a Catholic an invitiation to Heaven, the Church just says "Follow the 10 Commandments, be good, go to Confession regularly, believe in Jesus..." et cetera. The New Testament says that whoever believes with his (or her) whole heart and soul in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) is guaranteed a place in Heaven. I've often wondered what the catch is. The Church professes that God loves us and that is why He sent His son to die for us and set us free. But if you've ever read the book of Revelations (I don't think you would have, because it's in the New Testament), which is all about some guy's vision of the Apocalypse, it says that only a few thousand people will get into Heaven. Which, if you consider how many people have ever lived, and then consider how many of those were completely devoted to God (no matter what their religion) you get a lot of people left out. And I mean a lot. Seems like a bit of flawed logic there...

There are heaps of sheep in Australia - and my home is indeed located smack bang in the middle of nowhere (well, not right in the middle of Australia, in the desert, but we do live half an hour from the nearest town...) Dad's got a heap of different crops, wheat, barley, oats... and also the sheep. Around the area where we live there are also a lot of orchards and dairies, but fortunately we're not near any of them. I don't like dairies - they smell something terrible.

Yeah, G-d is pretty sophisticated.

I thought catholocism was very big into 'you are born into sin, and everything you do is sin, and unless you seclude yourself from the world and wear sackclothe and eat stale bread, you're going to someplace very hot and not very pleasant'

Whole thing sounds rather pointless. if you're born into sin, what's the use trying to be good?

The best part of judiasm is that if you're not jewish, you don't need to do anything to get into heaven. Feel free to do whatever you like (short of trying to kill us, of course) and still go to the good place. Yeah, there are seven things you're technically not supposed to do, but if you don't know about them, or what they are, you can't be held accountable.

You only need to do and not do things if you're jewish. Which both makes you more and less lucky, depending on your view of hard work.

If you want to know the seven things, and their reasons, and why you would be held accountable, just ask.


I'm not very good with languages, but matah, anyway.

Well, I think that Catholicism has changed a lot from what it used to be. If you've ever read Frank McCourt's "Angela's Ashes", which is his autobiography (he was an Irish Catholic) you'll think that all Catholics are into confession and sin and all that stuff.
But the Catholicism I was born into was all about "Jesus loves you and be good and love Jesus and love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and love thy neighbour as thyself and then you'll be guaranteed a spot in Heaven". I don't know if I want to know those seven things you were telling me about. Seems to me that if I believe in Judaism I'll get to Heaven even if I'm really bad to everyone... not that I want to be, of course.
I think if that's the case then you guys get a raw deal... why should you have to follow rules to get into Heaven, and the rest of us don't?
I think maybe all religion is pointless sometimes... there are concepts in every sect and denomination and religion that just don't work out or don't make logical sense. I think if we all just loved God and followed Him then we'd all be fine. But maybe some people like the ritual.
I don't know...
I hope I haven't offended you with anything I've said...

ignore this post unless it interests you. Its just catching up on backlog I couldn't finish last time because the librarian was throwing me nastly looks.
brilliant me, in my deep 'lets explain God' thesis stated example one and left out number two. Should teach me to get up on a soapbox.
(number two: letsee if I can fit it into less than a dozen lines. Basically, there are a lot of things that man doesn't understand, even if he's Einstein. I once read a book about the number zero, and thought it was very cool and fascinating, until page 72 where I discovered that I was basically reading stuff that made my head feel like it was going to bust. It was just too hard to understand. Even people who understand those things have things they dont understand. That's because the world is just too complicated. [did you know that the numbers dont go in a line, they are actually a spiral, and the spiral is not flat, but its three dimensional? yeah. really. whatever.] The idea is that all of this incredibly smart stuff didn't just happen, because it's all too orderly and sensible. [read the book ,and you'll understand. its called, Zero:the biography of a dangerous idea.] And just like all that stuff is just too much to comprehend, well, so is God. Imagine a pitcher and a cup. You're only a dorky human being who has to study things to understand them. The Pitcher is God, who created the stuff you're trying to understand. Try pouring the contents of the pitcher into the cup. There isn't any room. [there are actually stories in the Talmud about scholars who went crazy because they tried something like that. It was too much, and they went insane.] Similiarly, its pretty much impossible to understand God. Which is good, in a way. Imagine if the world was run by someone no smarter than a human. ) Also, you mentioned God with a personality: Interpret this story how you please. It took place apporoximately the same time Christians beleive God was walking the earth, and its my favorite G0d-has-personality stories. Here goes:
There's a story in the Talmud of when the Jewish scholars were arguinga point of law. 69 thougth one way, and the 70th thought differently. To prove his point, number 70, (Rabbi Yehoshua,) announced, "If I'm right, let the carob tree show that it agrees." the tree than stood up and walked 8 feet. Scoffed the leader of the 69, (Rabbi Gamliel,) "What do Carob trees know of Jewish law?" So R' Yehoshua says, "Well, let the stream testify for me." The water flowed backwards fora little while. R' Gamliel pointed out the stream wasn't well studied in law. R' Yehoshua figured the walls of the study hall might be considered well versed enough, so he asked them next. They started to cave in. R' Gamliel yelled at them not to get involved, at which point they froze in place. Finally, as a last ditch effort asked God to prove to these stubborn 69 that he was right. A voice came out of heaven and said, "the law is according to Rabbi Yehoshua." Immediately R' Gamliel got up and said, "Excuse me God, but please don't get involved. At Mt. Sanai you gave the Bible to US. And in that bible it says, "It is not in the heavens, nor across the ocean, but in your mouths and hearts to do..." Which means that deciding the law is up to US and not You. Since majority rules, we thank You very much for Your input, but the law is not in agreement." Anyway, a few days later, one of the scholars present met Elija the prophet and asked how God had reacted to this somewhat blatant dissertion? Elija said: "Oh, He laughed and said, 'My children have gotten the better of me.'"

I'm not sure why I just told that whole thing, but I guess there's no harm done.

Ohio!
oh yez, cows smell. I got a whiff in someone backyard on the moshav. are youre fathers crops cash crops or like a backyard, cheap feed for the animals kind of thing?
How about Japanese for, how are you? What do Japs say after "Hi" anyway?
The seven things are just basic tenets of civilization. If you're not Jewish, allyou have to do is be a good citizen, basically, and you're OK.
As for the difference between Jews and not: there's an idiom in Judaim: The harder the work, the greater the reward.
Dont worry about offending. I dont offend easily.

Its started raining two days ago, and hasn't actually stopped since. the rain was accompanied by a drastic drop in temperature. They say the whole winter is like this. Well, at least its not hot. The school is taking us out of town this weekend. It'll be the first time I see the highway scenery under clouds. The highways scenery here is really pretty. The desert hills and green plains... and all that stuff. Its really really gorgeous. And come Christmas, the place will be full of Catholics. Wanna come visit>?
matah

Leo - nice story. It made me laugh (not as a ridiculing kind of laugh, but as am amused-at-the-story thing). You certainly have some good theories.

My dad grows both kinds of crops - those that he sells, and some that he keeps as feed for our sheep. Most of them he sells, though.

The Japanese for "How are you" is "ogenki desu ka". The "desu" is pronounced "dess". The "ka" is the question particle and the "genki" means "health", I guess. You normally say that after saying hi, but there's only one response - "genki desu", meaning "I'm fine". Japanese ettiquette (I spelt that wrong, I know... didn't I?) is such that even if you are just about to die, if someone asks how you are, you have to reply that you're fine. Even though you're not.

Sure, I'd love to come visit Israel. It's certainly a place I didn't think I'd ever see in my life, but if the opportunity came to go there, I'd take it. I'm desperate to get out of Australia because I've been here all my life and never gone overseas. I'm hoping to go to America and Japan one day, and I'd also love to go to England and Scandinavia and... well, just Europe in general.
You guys don't do Christmas, right? Isn't Hannukah around the same time?

genki desu

Help! Help! I'm dying! HElp me!!!! *gasp gasp* I'm Dyyyyyyyyyyying!!!! No! Noo! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

just kidding

I don't think of G-d as personality. *shrug.* G-d is the ULTIMATE LAW. He's the guy I have to answer to for everything I do and don't do.
He's also the guy that gave me everything I have, and don't have. He chose me for greater responsibility as a greater risk for a greater reward. Is that better or worse? I have no idea, but G-d knows what he's doing.

We go by the lunar calendar, but with leap years, so things stay in the same time of year. Hannukah ends up in the winter, but not aways at the same time as xmas. This year it's before. This year everything's early. It's a leap year.

The difference between our punishment and reward and yours is huge. G-d is really a doctor towards you. He says, take this medicine, do these seven things, and evrything will go well with you. You'll be healthy. If you don't take this medicine or do these seven things, I won't punish you, but bad things will happen to you as a natural result. By us, It's like a king telling us 'you must take this medicine' If we take it, not only do good things happen, but we also get a reward. If we don't do like he says, not only do bad things happen as natural result, but we also get punished. Double whammy. It means we have to be really really carefull to do things the right way. It means that you're basically on your own, and we have G-d hanging over us, which is both good and bad, like I said.

You really don't need to be afraid to ask us anything. We usually have the answer, and when we don't, it's still out there, we just need to find out. which can be easily done by asking.

Hmm - it's strange. Everybody has rites and rituals they follow. Everybody goes through their life believing in what they think is right or good, and hoping that they'll get to Heaven or whatever afterlife they believe in if they play it straight according to their beliefs. Which makes me wonder - what is the real religion? How does God want us to worship Him? In all reality?

Is there some rite or ritual that He wanted us specifically to perform, but it has become lost in the passages of history, so nobody continues it, or because they don't understand its' significance they have discarded it as an empty ritual? How do we know that what we follow is true? The problem with it is that the documents we base our beliefs on are aeons old and sometimes incomplete or embelleshed recordings of things that were said decades ago to the authors, or perhaps never said to the authors at all but simply passed down via oral tradition.

I'm very confused. What is right?

We know the Torah is right because G-d gave it to us. It's true, and pure. Wihtout a single extra letter or word. Everything is in there for very important reasons.

We know every proposed seccond book is false, because G-d didn't give it to us.

G-d says, very clearly, for us to listen to moses, who then passed on his divine approval through something we call the mesorah...all from G-d.

During the times of the romans, when judiasm suffered it's biggest persecution, the last of the direct mesorah was lost. It was directly outlawed. (along with quite a few other things essential judiasm, like circumcision, our calendar, the sabbath...and others, that's actually what hannukah is celebrated for...we kicked the romans out of our temple. The romans, with their millions of soldiers and newest technology, we kicked them out with hardly any soldiers and no modern weopons...and the whole thing ends with a spectacular miracle to boot, but back to the topic...)

We follow the sages today through the elastic clause of the torah...basically, G-d says, listen to your sages, and even if they tell you the wrong thing, I'll change the world to make it the right thing.

Can't really find any loopholes. I KNOW I'm doing the right thing. No unsurities whatsoever.





Matah.

Sorry if I'm coming down to hard on you. If you want me to stop being the raving internet riligious preacher that leo thinks I am, just say so.

shut UP tiger.

ogenki desu ka, MIdnight?
I'm about to be cut off, but the way we know the old testament is correct in every letter is becasue we have ancient manuscripts which tally exactly to the modern copy. also, there are somany rules on how to copy it over, that its impossible to get it wrong.

I'd bettter post b4 its too late

Hmmmmm. Maybe I'll just join one of the G-d threads.

Sorry, Midnight. Everyone's confused at fifteen (speaking form being SO much older...what? Three years is a very long time!!!)

Just go on being a decent moral human being and rest easy. You don't need to be perfect, or even religous. Just enjoy life.

Tell us more about the farm.

How, exactly, do you shear sheep anyway? About how many sheep do you have? What's it like to live on a farm?

DO you eat that food that defies description that only australian seem to have heard of, tasted, and like? Vegemite, I think it's called. What is it exactly?

I mean, we have ethnic foods, but they taste really really REALLY good. Is there any way I can electronically get you hot potato kugel?






If you do have any more questions, I'll answer them, of course. But I won't say anything you don't ask for, kay?




And leo, I'll kick you in person.

you just try, tiger.

ohio, Midnight. Since I know that the answer to my last question in Japanes is "I'm fine," I'll reply beforehand, "Great!"

Are you on summer vacation now?
Its getting chilly here. For some odd reason the school chose this time to take us to Ein Gedi. Thats the name for a series of streams, pools, and waterfalls near the Dead Sea. ITs supposed to very pretty, and fun to splash around in, only nobody is going to want to when its around 10 degrees celcius outside.

HEy, listen, if you do well in school, no reason why you cant get some kind of scholarship to study abroad in some foreign country or another. LIke the USA. The local community college in NY has scholarships for foreign students. Because they want a 'diverse' student body. Come visit when you reach college age. Letsee, that in 3 years. I'll be almost finished college, if not done by then.

Its almost christmas time, isn't it? ARe people busy sweating in the summer heat hanging up overdressed santas and fake icicles?

How exactly do polite Japanese start a converstaion?

Matah,
Leo

I think we've scared her off, leo.


COME BACK MIDNIGHT!!!!!!!

I'm sorry I haven't posted in forever but I've been packing to go home and stuff... now I'm home and I won't be able to go online every day because of our computer being slow and old and also having to share it with my family...

I tend to find that if you want to post on this thread you have to make it a long one (which I don't mind at all) but I didn't have any time to post really long stuff. SORRY!! But I'm here, rest assured. Just slightly incapacitated.

I can't remember the questions you wanted me to answer!! Something about my family's farm? I know I should have copied and pasted it into a Word document for reference...

(And just to let you know, Tiger, I'm deeply interested in your religious views, so you don't have to worry about that. And to Leo, it's okay, we can talk about stuff on this thread other than God. Do you want me to write G-d instead?)

We wanted to know what' it's like living on a farm. How do you shear a sheep, anyway?

How far is the nearest grocery store? What about hospital? Public library?

My religious views aren't going anywhere, so they can wait. Leo is terrified of me preaching religion to everyone I meet on the net...and therefore having herself lumped into my 'fanatic' status.

Being as I haven't quite reached the fanatic stage yet, you can tell her I'm not reflecting badly on judiasm. Which is one of the big no nos by us. It kinds of ending up leading to angry mobs trying to kill us or, more recently, cause lots of bad things to happen to jews all over the world. Like france right now.


Kicking leo in person didn't help. Ezpecially when she looked so hurt and pitifull afterward...


Anyway, back to france. Have you noticed they've been losing their status as a world power? The world is not very happy with them right now. Coincidence? I don't beleive in coincedences.

aside from the fact that in person, Tiger is far far far from a religious fanatic...
I was objecting to her tendency toward missionary-izing, which is also a big no-no for Jews.
I dont think it matters how you spell G-d on the computer, because the screen is constantly regenerating itself. We just do that, because Jews dont erase or throw out G-d's name, so we just avoid using it in things that get erased or thrown out. BAsically, spelling G-d instead of God is a habit. But on the computer it doesn't matter.

What I wanted to know was what do Japs say after the initial, hi, how are you. If there is a 'how are you'.

And has your sheep farm been passed down from father to son kind of, since the days of the Australian penal colony, and if so, did they also pass down whatever heinious crime your gr8 gr8 grandad committed taht landed him in Australia?

Chanuka vacation just over. Hiked up masada, tasted the Dead sea, soaked my feet in the pools and waterfalls of Ein Gedi, visited the mystical city of Tzefat, (sefad) and all around had a great time. I've been to a lot of places, but still haven't found one as pretty as this little strip of land along the mediteranean.

My welcome to Tzefat was basically stepping off the bus and into a horse. There's some guy who lives there and is too cheap to fence in his livestock. The place was running with cows and dogs and horses. Welcome to a city sized farm.

I've never actually shorn a sheep before because it's not "girls' work", and I don't think I'd be able to handle it anyway. I don't actually have any brothers to help my dad with the shearing, so he hires men to come and do it. Basically, you get all the sheep into little pens in the shearing shed, wrestle them out one-by-one, turn the sheary-thing on and shear them. I don't really know how to explain it, but I've seen it done many times. Maybe you could look it up on the Internet? The shearing shed always smells of fleece, though... not particularly pleasing. And the sheep are always shorn in winter - they look really small without all their wool.

As for how near everything is to us - it's half an hour by car to any of the nearby towns, which means half an hour to get to any hospitals/cinemas/shopping centres...
My dad has the farm now, and his dad owned it before him, but it doesn't go any further back in our family than that. My grandfather had another farm where my dad and his siblings grew up, and then when my dad was in his teens they moved here. But the farm itself is really old, about 100 or so years (the house we live in included).
I know that some of my ancestors were convices sent from Engalnd to here 200 years ago for stealing loaves of bread to feed their starving families, but some of my other ancestors were Irish and Greek immigrants too. Mainly Irish blood in me, though. Which accounts for my Irish surname (I obviously can't tell you what it is, though.).

Tiger - you're not a fanatic, and don't worry about coming across as one. I think people who have something to say are always interesting, don't worry (that includes both you and Leo).

Oh, BTW, Happy Hanukkah (although I'm a bit late for that now). I was going to wish you a Merry Christmas too, but I know you don't celebrate that. Most people don't see the religious significance in the festival any more because it's been over-commercialised... Santa and holly and all that. Although our family still goes to church on Christmas Eve.

Leo - after the preliminary "Hi, how are you?" (Konnichiwa! Ogenki desu ka?) Th conversation could turn to any topic, just as in English. Do you want to learn any other specifics about Japanese?

Well - that's about all I've got to say... our house is being cleaned top-to-bottom in preperation for the inundation of people arriving on Dec 25th... which is no mean feat if you saw the state of our house

Hannukah is about beating materialism, roman philosophy, and basic hedonism. It would be defeating the purpose entirely to commercialize it.

Xmas seems like the perfect holiday to commercailize, though. Giving? Where do you get the things to give?

I don't get the point in lying to your kids, though. Why tell them about the big red guy, and then take them shopping to by the gifts?

Then again, if you wanted to give me gifts once a year i wouldn't complain. *sigh* I'll just have to settle with hanukah 'gelt' (which means money, by the way...and this year I got $200!!!!!)

What's a 'shearing thingy' anyway? What does it look like? And if you shear the sheep in the winter, how do the sheep keep warm?

I guess the best way I could describe the "sheary thingy" is to say that it looks like an extremely vicious buzzing old fashioned razor. The ones in our shearing shed are all a worn red colour, and they're often greasy (I think to help the parts in it move). They used to shear sheep manually with these shears that looked like dirty great pairs of intimidating scissors, but they don't do it any more because it's time consuming and even more backbreaking work than what shearing is now.

I think the sheep just stick together in the winter to keep warm, but I've often questioned myself why the sheep are shorn in winter. I think that maybe in summer the grass is too dry and prickly and it gets stuck in the wool, therefore making it difficult to seperate, but I'm not sure.

I don't get the reason for Santa either, but I guess it's just the same as the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy... plus it makes for good movies. I don't like the commercialisation of Christmas either, and as Bart Simpson said: "Aren't we all forgetting what Christmas is really about? The birth of Santa!" (hehe - love that quote. It shows how far the commercialisation has really gone...)
I also don't like the way that here in Australia the Christmas decorations are being sold in shops as early as October... *shakes head*
It's strange, what has happened...