h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

hmmm, and you "dropping in" on the nothing interesting thread isn't pretty much the same thing, wraith?

As my students would say, "whatever."

Be off with you, little boy.

Montana, you had me right until the end

I haven't been in the threads mentioned at all. I came here via a link that blicky posted in the What's wrong with NZers? thread.

I would like to say that coming from the outside, Montana posting in this thread (for the most part) looks like a genuine attempt at reconciliation. Even though she obviously doesn't agree with everything you say and do wraith, it does look like she was cutting come slack in order to find some common ground to communicate on. That's looking at it purely from a communication style perspective.


There has been alot of conflict on h2 lately. I posted recently that I thought the reason that it wasn't being resolved was because people were more concerned with being right than with being in good relationship with each other. With the digi conflict this was happening on all sides.

I've had a lot of experience in groups and interpersonal communication. Effective communication can be learnt (and taught). I see many times on h2 that styles of communicating cause as much conflict as content and intent. I hope to get around to posting or writing about this eventually. In the meantime can I just say, can't we also be kind and considerate to each other?

wraith and Della, I'm not wanting to take sides here, . What I am saying here is for all of us (I've seen some messy communication from everyone so far).

I'm just feeling like I am coming across alot of bad blood on h2. One of my passions is finding ways of talking with each other beyond our differences and hurts.

wishing all of you all the best.



kea.

kea, I appreciate what you have to say. I'm just fed up, that's all. There's only so many times I can hold out the olive branch and ask for peace and get slapped upside the head with a dead fish (figuratively speaking) before I snap. While it may not have been the nicest thing to say, I do have a breaking point. We all do.

I, too, am tired of all the bickering. I don't go many places, but for a while, the WWW Americans thread was actually going somewhere. As was the Sadam/Bush thread. And then both devolved into mindless namecalling and insults. I'm someone who appreciates a good argument (one of my best friends, and favorite people to debate with, is a staunch Republican), but insulting people and calling them names is no way to make an argument. It's one thing to respond with "Are you cracked? My goodness, that argument went out with Newton." It's another thing entirely to call someone stupid because they don't agree.

Just because I don't agree 100% with someone doesn't mean everything they say is invalid. It just means that I don't agree. That doesn't mean I can't be persuaded, but persuade me with facts, not with insults. Flies and honey, right? And even more, respect. Respecting other people's opinions, even if you don't agree, is the basis of civil society.

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Kea, I feel so frustrated myself! I have noticed exactly this 'bad blood' especially since November '03. I just don't know how to get around it!
From my perspective, a couple of people (whom I had better not name, but Montana is *not* one of them, are at the root of it all. The person who came and intruded on this conversation most recently, seems to be one of them - fomenting bad feeling everywhere. All the strange and horribleness that began in December can be traced back there.
What would you advise? The person to whom I refer has caused a lot of hurt through remarks that touched on a situation in the past personal to us (Wraith and me.) That's why we were scared to see him turn up again!

"What would you advise?"

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That when someone disagrees with your opinions you don't take it as a personal attack and immediately start whimpering about how 'bruised and battered and misunderstood' you feel whilst lashing out with personal insults and spiteful vitriol. That when you make a mistake you don't try to blame others for it. That you stop complaining to others and acting like a victim and pretending you have no idea why a cloud of bad feelings often follows you around on h2g2.

Sorry, I just got fed up seeing you here trying to blame myself and blicky (yes, we are the 'couple of people' who are apparently at the root of poor Della's problems) for your own inability to get along with people. Just like when you told a blatant lie about me on a thread I was not even taking part on, months after I had had any contact with you at all.

I gave up trying to speak to you after you started a thread called 'War' on my personal page. Gee, I wonder why.

az

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Oh, and I thought you *meant* it about not speaking to me... Why do you and your two friends keep coming along and posting the same old links to the same old controversy, making the same old allegations without realising that time has passed, this is a *different* argument with different people?
Oh, and BTW you *know* that I changed the title of the thread on your space to War? note the question mark.

I believe I can step up and provide an explanation:

This is a different argument, with different people on one side. On the other side, however, there is you. Although time has passed, you have not changed. I note with interest you offer no rebuttal of these allegations, which is obviously fair enough because you know I can prove every word of what I've said about you.

The reason people keep popping up is that they see you being your usual brittle, irrational, dishonest self in conversations with people who may, briefly, mistake you for a decent human being. I'd just like to save ACTUAL decent people - like, say, in this instance, Montana - from wasting their time talking to you as though you were going to respond like a grownup.

If you ever DO start responding like a grownup, chances are we'll stop. But speaking for myself... I won't hold my breath.

Oh, you mean Della wasn't referring to blicky and myself for a change? So there is another 'couple of people' (not Della of course!) causing another big problem on some threads? Presumably Flipper and Dave. It's always someone elsd's fault apparently.

It was on the WWWA thread that Della recently posted another lie about me, saying to everyone there (most of whom I don't even know) that I had told blicky to go on that thread and say things about her. I mean, talk about delusions of self importance. I wasn't even involved on that thread and I had not had any contact with Della since the War thread she posted on my page in January (she perhaps changed the subject title, I didn't notice, but this did not change the original thread title on my personal page.

Anyhow blicky told me that Della and Wraith were ganging up on Montana and I came to have a look because I quite like Montana. And the reason I ended up leaving the Saddam/Bush thread was because of the nasty bickering that took over that thread. And yes, I agree that Wraith's hacking into Flipper's email was inexcusable.

Montana, based on my experiences with Della you are wasting your time trying to be fair and understanding. It certainly didn't work for me. What I do now is mostly avoid threads she is on. On the older threads we were both on I try not to reply to her postings at all. And if she says something I strongly disagree with then I make it a general posting to the thread so that it is as clear as possible that I am not attacking poor ickle Della personally but debating what she has posted.

az

Well, heck. I don't even need to be *on* this thread, do I?

Oh hi there, Montana! Fancy seeing you here!

You know, a couple of months ago I was on a thread with Reddyfreddy. It was the first time I had come across him and it turned out that we were in total disagreement about the thread topic. As I recall, Reddfreddy was rather on his own there and quite a healthy and sometimes heated debate ensued.

Not once did anyone resort to name-calling or personal insults. Though yes, at times people expressed an *idea* as being totally nuts and then went on to explain why they thoght so. Reddyfreddy even pointed out how refreshing it was to have a serious debate without it collapsing into nastiness. And we both admitted that while we could not accept or agree on each other's stance on the topic that we respected and appreciated each other's calm manner of debating. It was actually quite fun and challenging.

az

"Well, heck. I don't even need to be *on* this thread, do I?" you created this thread montana

Would the lot of you take this elsewhere. I'm sick of being followed, stalked by yapping terriers

In response to the one you left on my user page, I recall. The one where you left a rather nasty little one-up message and then unsubscribed.

What I meant by that comment, wraith, and you would have seen if you hadn't been trying to make something vindictive or mean out of it, was that everyone seemed to jump in and take over for both of us when we weren't around. You and I were having a conversation (of sorts) and then Della jumped in, and then others. That would be what I meant.

I'd say that I'm sorry for that, but frankly, I can't control what other people do. All I know is that every time I've tried to make overtures of conciliation to you, you seem to read some sort of malicious intent into my posts that simply isn't there. So I will say this ONE MORE TIME.

I DID NOT agree with what sgtflipper posted. I DID NOT agree with whatever it was that you did to his email. BOTH of you behaved in a childish manner that I thought was unacceptable. NEITHER of you has any high moral ground to stand on. I DO NOT have any sort of ill feelings toward you, and I DO NOT sit around and think up ways of trying to hurt your feelings or anyone else's feelings, for that matter. I LIKE to have a rousing debate. I DO NOT think that insulting people is a debate.

Is that clear enough?

No, and neither do I. It's become a farce. I don't think Wraith is involved any more either. I just want to say that for all I know, Wraith's intentions were not to do anything illegal or immoral. That's all I have to say.
Maybe I'll see you elsewhere?

" you seem to read some sort of malicious intent into my posts that simply isn't there"

Wow. Does that ever seem to run in the family, or what?