h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well,

You appear to have written a series about the history of the pre-USA
land, that later on got its constitution, etc.

I see, you already have my story about it, but it's far to long to read that in between.

The reason why I am mailing you, is the reply I got at h2g2 from someone about "Founding Fathers" and the constitution of U.S.A.

Júst - and ónly - to be complete; I'll first post here my "Journal story" and after that, the reply I got.

Feel free to ignore, refer or respond.

Greetings from Amsterdam,

Alfredo

Watching BBC-World live (Jan. 4th 2007) I saw and heard the total speech of the first elected woman speaker in the U.S.A. congress; miss Nancy Pelosi.

Quote from her website; http://www.house.gov/pelosi/

“The New Direction for America advances the right priorities – to make our nation safer and our economy fairer; to make health care and college more affordable; to energize America with energy independence; and to guarantee a dignified retirement for all Americans.

These initiatives – the product of a united Democratic House Caucus working together with our Senate colleagues - are our priorities for the 109th Congress. We are committed to building an America where all families can live and prosper in diverse, safe, and vibrant communities.”

Of course, it’s inspiring to be part of the process of emancipation and her words are far from empty. They seem to be spirited by her own struggle “from kitchen to Congress”, as she said. What a person !

Immediately I had to think about “Judith Leyster”, the 17th century female masterpainter I just wrote about yesterday.This link is from Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Leyster



But there was anóther reason why I suddenly looked back, into history.

The BBC commentator suddenly said; “as the founding fathers surely had wanted this to happen”.I do not know the exact constitution made by the founding fathers of the U.S.A.

It made me think about Europe's history and the Founding Fathers who escaped death and created and found shelter in what we know now as U.S.A. These founding fathers were protestants from Western/Northern Europe who fled this continent. Most of them came from what we now know of Belgium and Holland (The Netherlands).

When pres. George Bush senior visited Amsterdam in the ninetees, he was given a professional investigation about his ancestors and yes, one of them was a founding father who fled “Zeeland”, which is a province of The Netherland. But this is not really important.



The other reason is more important for me; As we know, there were severe clashes between protestants and Roman Catholics, from 16th centuries and further on. Very violent periods. Many did escape to other countries like (what is now) U.S.A., others were killed.

When I did research about my ancestors around 2000 (with prof.help), I suddenly found the name of a “vordoghter” ("daughter from a prior marriage", or "illegitimate child") in a document of the family of my far ancestors in Brussels and she was described as ‘housekeeper” (to make life easy…). Her name is “Anneken van den Hove” (with all it’s versions, like “Hanneke”/”Hanneken”, etc. She was protestant, but participated the rather fanatic group of “anabaptists”(there are about eight different words for this group of believers). They refused to wear any wapons, did not want to participate in any armee, did baptise only adults.

Within the "anabaptists"community, there were two small fanatic groups and one of these even used violence to create " heaven on earth". (yes, everyting permitted for the good cause...) In Amsterdam some believers just run through town, naked ,while yelling credo’s and another group was around the German city of Münster. This last one really wanted a holy war and turn Münster into Gods Kingdom. Having said this, Anneke did not belong to these fanatics. She was a devoted woman, like 95% of all the anababtists.

Many descendants of these “anna baptisits”(“wederdopers”) in the U.S.A. are the "Mennonites" of today,but also less isolated groups like The Quakers and also more conventional "baptists". Pacifism and adult-baptism were their real items. In terms of theology, they were and are not sectarian (while Mormons and Jeh.witnesses are), but islolated from society with a dislike for all that’s technical and modern. I do not know if one of them ever was a “founding father”. May be, may be not, because they would never agree on creating an armee. But looking back into the history of these days, the groups were very close with each others in their religious beliefs, compared to R.Cath.

So, I had found the name "Anneke van den Hove" and some comments about her as a "martyr". Later on, I discovered a “book of martyrs" written in the Dutch language. Indeed, I did find "Anneken van den Hove in "Martelaers spiegel der werelose christenen t'zedert Ao. 1524". Calvinists, Ana Baptists ("werelose christenen") and Roman Catholics, they áll had their own "book of martyrs".
The Book is printed in Holland in 1631 and at page 932 and 933 "Anneken van den Hoven" is fully described as one of the martyrs Anno 1597".

She is described as an "Dienstmaeght"="housekeeper" of a family. But that is most probably an undercover name for a girl from an extramarital birth, or from a prior marriage.

Quote from the Book of martyrs;

"At Brussels, under the reign of the archduke Albert, there was apprehended for her faith and following Christ, a young maiden named Anneken van den Hove (being the servant maid of Nicolaes Rampaert's sister), having been betrayed, as it was said, by the pastor of the Savel church at Brussels.
This Anneken was imprisoned two years and seven months, in which time she suffered much temptation, from priests, monks, Jesuits and others, who thereby sought to make her apostatize from the faith she had accepted; but however great pains they took with her, in the way of examining, tormenting, fair promises, threats, long imprisonment, and otherwise, she nevertheless constantly remained steadfast in the faith in her Lord and Bridegroom,

so that finally, on the ninth of July, 1597, certain Jesuits came and asked her whether she would suffer herself to be converted, for in that case she should be released and set at liberty.Thereupon she replied, "No." They then offered to give her six months more time for consideration; but she desired neither day nor time, but said that they might do what seemed good to them, for she longed to get to the place where she might offer up unto the Lord a sacrifice acceptable unto Him. This answer having been conveyed to the judges, information was brought her about two hours afterwards, that if she wanted to die, prepare herself, unless she wished to turn.

Hence the justice of the court, and also a few Jesuits, went out with her about eight o'clock, half a mile without the city of Brussels, where a pit or grave was made, while in the meantime she fearlessly undressed herself, and was thus put alive into the pit, and the lower limbs having first been covered with earth, the Jesuits who were present asked her whether she would not yet turn and recant?

She said, "No;" but she was glad that the time of her departure was so near fulfilled. When the Jesuits then laid before her, that she had to expect not only this burying alive of the body into the earth, but also the eternal pain of the fire in her soul, in hell. She answered that she had peace in her conscience, being well assured that she died saved, and had to expect the eternal, imperishable life, full of joy and gladness in heaven, with God and all His saints.

In the meantime they continued to throw earth and (as has been stated to us) thick sods of heath ground upon her body, up to her throat; but notwithstanding all their asking, threatening, or promising to release her and take her out of the pit, if she would recant, it was all in vain, and she would not hearken to it.

Hence they at last threw much additional earth and sods upon her face and whole body, and stamped with their feet upon it, in order that she should die the sooner.

This was the end of this pious heroine of Jesus Christ, who gave her body to the earth, that her soul might obtain heaven; thus she fought a good fight, finished her course, kept the faith, and valiantly confirmed the truth unto death” end Quote.

http://www.bethelks.edu/services/ml...s/martyrsmirror/mm%20bk2%20p793.jpg

Well, seeing the “first elected woman speaker in the House of congress of the U.S.A.", in 2007 , made me also think off “Anneken” who stood firm in what she believed straight from her heart. (I do not join any church anymore, although I also studied a few years theology and the cultural history of Europe.).

Annekes way of standing firm is far away from todays would-be martyrs with guns and explosives, although religion and democracy are not always just that easy to match. So at this historical moment in American politics - Jan 2007- I also do remember that brave woman who did not bow for powers and force. If she would have said in her final moment; "I was wrong", she would have been released. Absolutely.

(In her case it was nót the catholic church that demanded the death penalty, but the king of Spain)

Finally here some links; Apparently there were many edited versions of the Book and therefore different texts and descriptions, because executing went on and so the list of "martyrs" became longer and longer.

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/martyrs159.htm#1093 This is about the fate of Anneken van den Hoven, who was burried alive in 1597 .(her name is júst down under your screen. This website is made by the Mennonites community).

The engraving ("picture") of her fate in a 1685 edition is above. More pictures of other "martyrs" can be found at "images" at the site just mentioned, above.


Jan Luykens created these original etchings for the second edition of Martyrs Mirror, about Anneken some of which were later rediscovered in a box that had survived World War II Germany.
Luykens was a 17th century Dutch Anabaptist pastor and writer who also illustrated a classic edition of Pilgrim's Progress

Well, that all came up in me, whatching the news at BBC world, Jan. 4th, 2007.

I hope that miss Nancy Pelosi as first speaker in The House of Congress, may inspire women ánd men to create a society as the Founding Fathers wanted and hoped to create.

Subject: Founding Fathers and Nancy Pelosi, first female speaker of the House of Congress U.S.A. 2007
Posted 2 Hours Ago by Elrond Cupboard - all the right thoughts, though not *necessarily* in the right order.
This is a reply to this Posting Posting 2

Quote;
Isn't there some confusion there between the pilgrim fathers and the political founding fathers of the independent United States (some generations later)?

The pilgrims weren't the first settlers, nor great in number. As a symbolic group, they may have some significance, but had their ship sunk on its westward journey, would it have made any real difference?
End quote

F135418?thread=3785514

Hello Alfredo

I was actually the Sub-editor on that University Project - I know it's confusing that the Entries should show up in my list - the author is here: U204330

But, yes, when Americans refer to the 'Founding Fathers', they generally mean those who took part in the Continental Congress and were (often) signatories to the Declaration of Independence, helped draw up the constitution and so on, during the 1770s: Washington, Jefferson, Adams et al.

The Pilgrim Fathers (a generic and not always accurate name) were much earlier.

Two questions;

1)Whats the exact link at your space

2) What would be - in short terms - your opinion about what I wrote as the link between "protestants/calvinists/mennonites"etc and the Founding Fahers.