h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Dear Mr Mee

I am currently reading for my PhD in History at the University of Kent at Canterbury. My thesis is 'The Role of Popular Music during WWII'.

I am very interested in your recollections of dancing in WWII. I would love to discuss this if I could with you and any other things related to music and your experiences of it during the war.

if you could leave a message for me here or contact me on [email protected] that would be great.

Martyn Beeny

Dear Martyn,
Firstly I wish you well with your PhD.
I must now tell you I was ten years old at the beginning of the war and sixteen at the end so the dancing was in those later years. The introduction to dancing came at an early age because my Mother and Father were keen competition dancers at a time when you could win money prizes. That ended as the war progressed.
We were a musical family so had a piano and other instruments but the Wireless as we all called the Radio then had centre place. We listened to all the music programs and later music while you work during the lunch breaks. Music and films were all we had and they lifted our spirits during the war.
I have written up the story of the dancing and my early participation in that. The glitter and warmth the best dresses and suits the uniforms music and musicians all added up to a fairy land scene that took us away from war for a few hours. I have really said it all, if you have specific questions or require fill in, I will oblige in order to help.
We are loath to go onto e-mail unless it is a necessity as others also read the postings for information, I am willing to answer any questions on here though.
Regards Frank.

Martyn,
I ran your need round my friends and Tom came back with a story you may like to see go to;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A2106370

Another friend Peter who was sent to Italy at the start of the war as of Italian parentage told me they had no musical experience as all Radio was banned. He did intimate that he took part in some illegal listening as he spoke English but it must have been dicey.
Go to my personal page and find Peter, click on for a very interesting story indeed.
Hope this is of some help but come back anytime.
Regards Frank.

Dear Frank

Thank you for posting in reply.
Most interesting. I would like to use some of your comments in my thesis and hope that you would give me the permission to do so.
Your story was very interesting and I shall certainly now look at the links you suggested.
I shall give it some in depth thought and get back to you with further questions.
Thanks again

Martyn

Hello Martyn,
As the copyright is mine and not the BBC's you have my permission to use what you wish. As you can see by the story I was a keen dancer.
If you go to my personal page and find in the stories section "More wartime schooling" you will find I was dancing then too and was the Master of ceremonies at the Army Cadet dance we held once a month; see "Army Cadets" i guess it was in the blood.
Those dance nights with all the glamour (well it was to us) lifted us for a while from the misery of war, It was also one cracking way of getting the girls. A boy who could dance properly was in big demand even if you looked like quasimodo. Saying that a lot of them were married or engaged with men in the forces so there was a fair old age gap. I was a tall lad so the girls were not embarrased to dance with me. All good fun.
Regards Frank.

Dear Mr Mee

Thank you for your permission to use your insights.

The glamour that you speak of interests me. Could you describe the places that you danced in? Do you remember anything about the actual music that was played? Were there big bands or was it all smaller combos or gramophone records?

I hate to impose, there are probably a thousand and one questions that I could ask you. It is such a bonus to have people such as yourself that are willing to offer their memories and thoughts as it provides me with excellent material to use as more evidence in my work.

Thanks again

Martyn

Martyn,
Imagine my first travail into one of those places. Ten years old with my mother and father because I was to tough for the baby sitter and they had to dance the competion for prizes or money. We had electricity in the form of one lamp per room at home and we often used the gaslight as it was warmer and a softer glow.
You walked into what seemed a massive room and it was lit up as if heaven had opened its doors. (To young people like you who have been brought up with as much light as you wanted that must seem strange).
The first thing to draw the eye was a massive mirror ball spinning in the centre of the room with spotlights from the four corners lighting it up and throwing starlight in all directions. Then rows of coloured spotlights along the walls with spinning discs that changed the colour continuously. Large muti bulb lights that lit the room between dances as if it was day. It was beyond the imagination of a young lad.
I sat amazed as the people in proper dinner suits and the ladies in long glamorous dresses swirled round to a complete band with conductor, playing all the very latest hit music. Oh yes it was glamour alright.
That was before and in the first months of the war, what they called the phony war. The real war did not start until spring the next year with the invasion of Holland Belgium and France. It all changed then to ordinary suits and uniforms.
My first dances were in church halls and school halls. We would have the vicar and his wife or some other good people putting records on a wind up gramophone or if we were lucky an electric turntable. Victor Sylvester and his straight dance orchestra would be on the records with a few Henry Hall and others. "Dancing in the dark" "Sally" "Night and day" "teddy bears picnic" "Smoke gets in your eye's" "Stormy weather" "I only have eye's for you" "The still of the night" "Thanks for the memory" "Pennies from heaven" to name but a few. We had a radio and listening to the bands like Henry Hall after tea was a must. We could all sing those songs and I can still play most of them on my piano at the drop of a hat.
Some of the church hall dances would have a Piano player drummer and probably a horn player or Accordion, sometimes a piano and drums only. If we got five people playing that was an orchestra to us.
The large halls had big bands with named leaders in Stockton we had Jack O'Boyle at the Paliase De Dance and Jack Marwood at the Maison De Dance there were two other halls with big bands and one in Norton where I lived. Dancing was big time as you can see.
Dancing was the opiate of the people in a dull dreary hard working time. People on war work did long hard shifts with enforced overtime so Friday and Saturday night dances they let their hair down. The people in uniform men and women would be on leave not knowing what was going to happen and they would also let their hair down. We had people from all nations and a huge Canadian contingent near us they flew the bombers out of Goosepool or Teesside Airport as it is now called.
See Martyn those people lived life to the full in a stressful time. We civilians got done up to the eye's I even washed behind my ears young as i was and the uniforms added more glamour. Yes they were glamerous to us and a place where we could live our dreams for a few short hours if the Germans did not come raiding that is.
Hope that gives you some idea and I dont mind you asking it needs to be told.
regards Frank.

Dear Frank (may I call you that?)

Thanks again for more wonderful insights.

The picture you paint is intoxicating now, so it must have been spectacular then.

As dancing was such a large part of the popular music scene then, this is all of interest to me. I wonder though if I might ask you about the actual bands a bit. I am writing about many things, not least of which is the big military bands that existed at the time. Do you remember the RAF Squadronaires or the RAOC Blue Rockets? If so, how were they viewed in comparison to the professional civilian bands of the time. Were you a fan or were they not even listened to that much?

Thanks again for all your help.

Martyn

Dear Martyn,
Call me anything you like just dont ask for money, My family say I make scrooge look like a big spender.
Picture the time our media was Radio and film, we went at least twice a week to the pictures and also the twopenny rush on Saturday mornings. We saw all the musicals because they were the ones usually in colour, really something in a black and white era.
We saw Tommy Dorsey and his band with the big singers; Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra. The large orchestra's were featured in those films full front so we saw Glen Miller, Arty Shaw and Harry James with singers like; Deana Durban, Vera Lynn, Anne Shelton, the Andrew Sisters, Dinah Shaw.
Then there was Benny Goodman the greatest and we would get Gene Krupa the greatest Drummer ever.
We had Al Bowlly our own English crooner who Crosby said was the best he ever heard. Henry Hall was the favourite English orchestra but we had many big bands.
Glen Miller and Bands like the Squadronaires were big because they were Show bands. We saw them on film the Pathe News, playing to masses of troops and they played all the hit Boogy. They took the whole of a big band and put them in uniform so they had a head start on most military bands. Those military bands also had swing sections who would play for dancing they were all in big demand.
Music then was our life. Music while you work in the factories, musical interludes during lunch canteen breaks which because of the numbers could have three or more sittings. There were also Classical interludes where people would sit mesmorized by music they would never have heard ordinarily.
I played piano and accordion so was always welcome at parties we would get a Banjo and harmonica and in no time we had every one singing and dancing.
I suppose looking back we were a bit manic in taking advantage of musical entertainment only it was a great outlet for tension.
Any band from three old men out of retirement to the top big bands were welcome and I would not try to segregate them into lists of popularity.
Those are my thoughts and memories others may think differently, you will need to sort that out.
Frank.

Dear Martyn,
I have just read your conversation with Frank. I was ready to answer your questions on we civilians in the war when I saw Frank had answered most of them already! Trust him!!
My own memories are very similar to his. I was eleven when the war started and my first experience of a dance saw me, at 14 years of age, with my best friend, dancing behind a Catholic Church, in their hall. It was a Sunday and I lived in Swansea, South Wales. Everything apart from Churches was closed. My evening, apart from the wonder of my first 'real' dance, was the boy who took me outside in the blackout. He kissed me goodnight. My first kiss! I floated home on a freezing night, glowing! Youngsters can't understand what it meant to us.
Like Frank, I remember the sparkling globe, shafts of light darting everywhere. The thrill. They were dark days and we didn't have ordinary childhoods.
The cinema took us outside ourselves and we spent every evening at the pictures, with their impossible dreams, of lives unknown to us. Or to the dances. Our best dance hall was the Patti Pavilion, who had a band, forget its name, unfortunately.
Swansea was a busy port, especially in wartime and the streets were filled with troops, mostly American.
Those boys could dance and the heaving mass of youngsters foxtrotted, tangoed, and quickstepped the night away. But the floor always cleared for the enthusiastic jivers. It was called the jitterbug in those days. Each corner was cleared of dancers as they swirled and slid around in frenzied movement. Wonderful memories.
I loved all big bands whether, British or American and the Services Bands like The Squadronaires, Skyliners, were listened to and loved as much as the well known orchestras. There was one song called My Guy's Come Back, with a fantastic piano intro and I THINK it was played by one of the services outfits. Perhaps someone can tell me? Yes, music played a big role in our lives. And even after 60 odd years most of us can still remember the words. That must say something, mustn't it?
Best wishes and good luck with your degree.
Elvira. elviraberyl.

Dear Martyn,
Please forgive me interupting your conversations with my friend, Frank.
He and I share a lot of the memories of war time - especially the dance days. Much of what he has written could be my story too - although from the female side (but he puts things so much better than I do.) We girls had so much fun and revelled in it, although our fathers were not happy about our staying out till ten at night.(My father came to meet me from every dance. He didn't trust the men, so he said.) We made dresses from remnants of cloth and old clothes, copying the latest Hollywood models. We painted our legs and lips and tried various hairstyles.
There was great excitement when the Canadian boys played music at our dances in the church hall. The new sound got us well into the mood. Some of us were too shy (and too young) to dance with the airmen at first - so danced 'bust to bust' with our girl friends until we'd learned a few dance steps! At some of the dances there was a very talented 'boogy woogy' Canadian piano player. I don't know what happened to him but he held us spellbound by his playing and charm.
I was often engaged to entertain at the Canadian concerts. One had the feeling that in war time - anything goes, but it was all very innocent stuff in retrospect.
Hope this adds an extra bit of colour.
PS. I have written 'Growing up in War Time' which gives just a spec of information on your subject. A1096229
Kind regards.
Audrey Lewis

Hi Martyn,
Some while ago in another discussion we talked about those long gone times and it struck me how those fresh faces and winsome smiles would have now aged like me. Funny though, my body stiffens but I still wonder if I could swirl them around the floor as I once did, the toes twitch at a well remebered tune and suddenly you want to be back only???
As is my wont I suddenly found it coming out in bad verse but you may get the idea of what we felt then.

I WONDER.

Where are they now those lovely girls?
With flashing eye and winsome smiles
Who entranced us as they danced and whirled?
Around the floor the boy's to beguile,
I wonder where are they now.

The came out at night like brilliant stars
With their floral frocks and heels so high,
Enthralled we watched them from afar
As they flounced and passed us by,
I wonder where are they now.

We cuddled to music in the latest mode
Big band, jive plus the waltz's of yore,
The latin, Cotillion's, Palaise glide we strode
Before making our tryst, heading for the door,
I wonder where are they now.

Outside the hall we would head for their home
Holding hands shyly and hearts all aglow,
lips touching gently, hands told not to roam
Both of us happy not wanting to go,
I wonder where are they now.

We moved to new places with strange sounding names
They all had a dance hall or places to meet,
New girls, new faces to continue our games
As we flirted and cuddled to the musical beat,
I wonder where are they now.

I remeber them all, girls who filled me with joy
As we danced laughed and kissed, twas much slower then,
We respected each other all those girls and boys
And they all had instructions to be in by ten,
I wonder where are they now.

Are they still there but waiting for God
Are they Calender girls clothed only in smiles,
Are they like me a cantankerous old sod
Are they demure or fiesty and still full of wiles,
I wonder where are they now.

To me they are diamonds in a setting of time
Best to remember them as they once were,
Have they matured as good bottled wine
Or are they no longer there.
I wonder where are they now.

Or is it best to let sleeping dogs lay?

Frank Mee.

"Oops" Typo's
Put a couple of M's in the remember bits and it should be OK, Sorry.
frank.

Dear Martyn,
The diversity of the wartime music would make you wonder though to us it was "how it was" a few names that may set you off looking and you can still get some of those musical recordings at sites like "Music and Memories" "Music of the past" and many others.
Gracy Fields; Nelson Eddy and Jeanette MacDonald, Flanders and Swan comical duet. Whispering Jack Smith, Josef Locke, John McCormack all singers and very popular.
Xavier Cugat, Woody Herman, Edmundo Ross, Duke Ellington, Joe Loss, Ambrose, all big bands.
We loved Anne Sheltons version of "Lilly Marlene" stolen from the Germans and at party's I often had to play it a dozen times a night, maudlin lot we were.
Richard Tauber Gigli the list goes on and if you could download some of the music or even beg borrow and steal from older relatives (I know students are poor) you would hear what we heard, my grand kids still ask for some of the Glen Miller stuff I play and they are young moderns also at university, makes you think.
Regards Frank.

Dear Frank (and all the others who may read this and have already helped)

I am quite overcome with the amount of help you have offered me. It really is pleasing to have your assistance. I am actuallyin the process of writing more in a chapter of my thesis and I was about to use some of your comments and I thought I would check this site to see if you had left anything else. All of a sudden I now have help coming fmor all angles. It is wonderful.
I may be a student (and just a little bit younger than you - 28) but I believe that I have some appreciation from all my research as to how much the music and dancing meant. Of course I did not live it and certainly the clubs nowadays are much different (although you still get the odd silver ball hanging fomr the ceiling), but having studied it so much I have a certain empathy if nothing else. I have always enjoyed jazz (perhaps a bit old before my time) and sometimes think that I was born in the wrong generation.
Certainly, though, all of your help is priceless.
I will certainly think of more to tap your deep reservoirs of information with and I look forward to more of these conversations with you.
Thank you.

Martyn

Dear Elvira

Thank you for adding to our conversation.
You too, have excellent information for me and I do not believe that it pales when set with Mr Mee's. If you do not mind I shall certainly use your thoughts in my work as I can never have too much evidence to add weight to what I am saying.
I shall also ask yo more when I have a moment to put together something a bit more coherent.

Thank you so much

Martyn

Dear Audrey

Thank you to you too.

I do not tire of writing messages such as these because without your help my work would be lacking and certainly not have the same human element that I am striving for without ending up with a truly oral history. It is a fine line that I tread, but I have been offered a lot of encouragement from the History world in my work and there is certainly a demand for it. Thank you for helping me with this.

Martyn

Dear Frank (and Elvira and Audrey)

I was wondering. I know that you have mentioned that you would hesitate to put one band over another, but in spite of this I will persist and pose this question.
Would you say that at the time, as youngsters you preferred the American or British bands? Was there a glamour there (with the American ones) that perhaps did not exist with the British because of the different nature of the nations, or was it more about the music and the dancing regardless of who played it?
Did you have a favourite song - Lili Marlene?
I know that I may have phrased some of this in another way already, but perhaps you can excuse the rather mixed up mind of this student!! I have so many things going on in here that I fear I may soon live up to the sterotypical image of the nutty professor!
Thanks again.

Martyn

Dear Martyn,
Each was a different entity. The American big bands we only saw on news media or film so they had that glamour added to them. We still saw plenty of them though as we did visit the cinema at least twice a week and often more.
The English big bands had a much more refined air that suited the British temperament, we also saw them on Film but occasionally saw them live too. We could hear them on the radio most evenings and many played the music while you work sessions during the day.
Bands, English or American did not only play one kind of music they played it all. Fast, slow, latin American, jazz, boogie or jive. They had resident singers male and female and some had groups like the Andrew Sisters who were in uniform too.
The songs took on a different mood as the war went on, the first year; Roll out the barrel; kiss me goodnight Sergeant Major; Its a lovely day tomorrow.
The following year we got ; The last time I saw Paris; Bless em all.
Next is was; The white cliffs of Dover and When they sound the last all clear.
Another year and it was; "As time goes by" and "Wait till you see her".
1943 saw my very own favourite songs "Oh what a beautiful Morning" and the best "People will say we're in love" 1944 brought "Lilly Marlene" it was very catching and gave a feel of the times, the 8th Army had made it their own and brought it home when they arrived for the invasion of the continent. You see songs also travelled.
Our moods or the news dictated what we sang and we all sang at the least excuse. After Crete fell we had a song called Suva Bay, "I lost my love in Suva Bay" it was Australian and mirrored a first world war song from the Dardanelles.
When the invasion threat was over and the Americans started to come over early in 1942 it was suddenly jazz and jive with upbeat songs again. near the end it was wishfull thinking songs. "When the lights go up in London" "When the boys come marching home" etc;
If I had to give a verdict it would be Glen Miller and "In the mood" followed by the same Glen Miller's "Sentimental journey" I still play them both when alone or if the kids request them.
My English all favourite was Henry Hall and singer Chick Henderson, Al Bowlly was killed early in the war.
Music had a place in our lives that was how can I say! how about like computers in your life? you cannot imagine a world without them well that is how we saw music and the big bands.
I saw the Squadroaires once they came to a large factory near us to play a lunch time concert and music was so important they stopped the war work for over an hour, that makes you realise how much importance the government put on those shows for morale.
You will have to sort the material you will get or be overwhelmed by it all, it is a very large and to us who lived it a very important subject.
regards Frank.

May I make a pedantic point? Flanders & Swann were a post-war phenomenon. I remember going to see their first review in a London theatre in about 1956.
Otherwise I'm afraid I have not much to offer to this general topic as I really only danced occasionally, at weddings as far as I recall. However I listened to the dance music on the radio.

Harold Pollins