h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You're right. (why do I find myself saying that to you so much?)

You charmer!

If you make it your business to encourage the graffiti one day, then change your mind the next, I think maybe people should consider you a little strange.

Yes, it's censorship, because BBC has made this their business and when everything's going good, they don't mind it one bit because they're getting free content that others have to pay for, so when things are not going so good, it's too bad they can't give nothing back, don't you think?

Enough about Iran with a q.

Hey, Analiese:

Back to some of the stuff this thread is about. This is just to compare notes, because I'm not really sure what the situation for this type of stuff is down there. If you were to look at the public school system in the nearest city to you with a population of about 700,000 people, most of whom are immigrants to the country or children or grandchildren of imigrannts, would that public school system offer something like this:

http://districtsite.epsb.ca/education_options.cfm#Aboriginal ?

I'm meaning specifically Awasis and Amiskwaciy Academy.

Also, my daughter goes to a special needs program at an elementary school where she's integrated with regular elementary kids and one end of the school is given over to an all-girl junior high program which also helps out with the elementary kids. Oh, and a high school some distance away has a buddy program in which the high school kids come over to take the special needs kids out for sports (it's swimming right now). I know that the (mainly white and Indian [from India] junior high girls do a unit on Aboriginal culture -- it's part of the provincial curriculum.

Comparing notes.

It's a very complex topic, Anhaga.

There are local schools where I live now which have units in the curriculum that cover the subject, cover being a rather qualified term here. There are few native teachers however.

At a nearby theological seminary, there is a native person on the faculty. Otherwise, most of the "big names" like the Delorias have started to migrate back to indian colleges, which they should I think.

All too often the programs intended to help our children end up entertaining the children of the immigrants. You might think this fosters understanding and it probably does, however, like I said, it's a complex topic, so such cursory examination might not be as fostering as we think.

It's certain that urban indians face a whole lot of challenges that rural ones don't concerning retention of cultural values like language and such. And it's difficult to meet their needs in an urban environment. That's one of the challenges that face the people in this century I think. The other is getting the lands back, since living in urban areas probably isn't a good thing in the long term.

In any case, people need the reservations I think to make a homeland to which they can return from the cities from time to time and many do that. The connection is important.

Schools associated with those reservations also need to be fostered and supported even if they are located in urban areas. This is what's missing now from the public school system and I don't think that's going to be remedied since most people would consider it a special need not especially in need of remedy.

The situation is complicated however by the commitments made in treaties to educate the children. Once again these commitments have not been honored for the most part and when they are, it is often begrudgingly as if it were some special kind of welfare when in fact it's a legal obligation freely assumed by the government as part of the treaty process.

I'm attending college on a fullride that is not government sponsored. Even so, I don't consider it a gift but an obligation that has been assumed by private parties in lieu of the government. If they complain, I refer them to that government too, but so far few have complained, but it's still unfortunate that they have to bear the cost because the government won't.

On the otherhand, it's not unreasonable to assume that their wealth is somehow connected with my poverty so this is really a compensation between them and me too.

Like I said, it's a very complex topic, maybe more complex than in Canada, but you would probably be a better judge of that than me.

I think you're right that it's complex and, I think, it's probably just as complex up here. I thought the information about the Edmonton programmes was something that was worth you having. But this is just one Urban school board with dedicated programmes for urban aboriginal kids (I don't think a lot of non-aboriginal kids go to them). In rural areas there's the one programme for everybody (well, actually due to the wacky Canadian constitution, two systems, public and Catholic). On the reserves the schooling is, I'm sure, uneven at best.
Something I'm not clear on is how the American school system works, what level of government is responsible for what. Up here the constitution says there has to be a catholic school system and a public school system which are the responsibily of the Provincial Governments. How the Provincial governments manage the systems is pretty much up to them. In Alberta (at this point) the school boards are made up of elected trustees who manage a budget made up of per-student grants from the Province. In Edmonton, the budgeting is further complicated by an edict from the Province that says no new schools will be built until all existing ones are filled to a certain percentage of their capacity. Edmonton has rapidly growing suburbs without schools and a city centre with a dwindling population and a surfit of schools. The aboriginal programmes, along with a bunch of other special programmes (including the all-girls schools), are, in part, a way to attract students to the city-centre schools to keep them full and take the pressure off the non-existent suburban schools. It's not all altruism, its pragmatism.

Wow, I got through a long post without mentioning Iraq. Oops.

If you post me back tonight I probably won't answer until tomorrow.
I'm worn out.

Hey, Analiese:

Just to repeat that all is not paradise up here:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/19/aboriginals030319

There is nothing in the public sector here that approaches what you describe for Edmonton. There are programs in the Navaho Nation for example that do resemble it, but the Navaho Nation is one of the wealthiest tribes in the country.

I think most people are more likely to take the Navaho approach though than to expect the government will miraculously fulfill its treaty obligations. Most of the programs obtained initial and indirect funding through the OEO (Office of Economic Opportunity) which existed during the War of Poverty initiative of the Johnson administration. It's only with self-determination in the usage of discretionary funding that these programs have become viable.

Former BIA schools have also been converted to local charters that take into account the indigenous culture in the circulum. This is really no thanks to the government. It seems that it's only been possible as the govenment has perceived the need to get out of the indian education business, a business it pursued for the expressed purpose of assimilation and failed for the most to accomplish. So it drops everything and goes on to victimize somebody else.

I applaud your candor, by the way. It's hard to admit that your govenment might not be doing the right thing in some instances, but such admissions probably insure that it will do the right thing sooner or later. At least there's more hope than we have in the United States.

I think it would be a rare Canadian, whatever their political pursuasion, that would not admit that in general it is not a great economic thing to be born native in Canada. There will be differences in peoples' judgement of the reasons for the situation (some would argue that it's their own fault and they're all a bunch of free-loaders. But I suspect that would be a small constituency).
One of my Canadian friends here on H2G2 (I think it was CL Zoomer) said awhile ago that we Canadians just have to be honest about our society and we can feel comfortable. Honesty really is important.

I'm confident you have your share of rednecks and jingoists, but it probably doesn't remotely approach what we have here.

As for honesty, you would think that some people would acknowledge that it's easier to tell your stories straight than try to keep them straight, but apparently some people in America never learned that.

"it's easier to tell your stories straight than try to keep them straight"



I really like that.

Analiese:

I've just put an entry (A1004969) into Peer Review. I'd be very interested in any comments you might make (even rude ones).

have you caught up on the backlog yet, zoomer?

I just reached that comment. I have read this one and another. I will get back after I check a few more out. You made me smile.

I was intrigued by the United Churches opposition to the Act:

http://www.united-church.ca/jpc/aboriginalissues/030227.shtm

And also interested in the gloss-over by the CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/features/indian_act.html

I think after looking at various angles and interpretations, I believe the intent of the Act has been sadly lost. The intent was to remove the Patriarchal role of the federal government and bring the First Nations people into a proper democracy after restitution for lost land and resources. In addition it would have provided local legal systems that fall within traditional tribal law.

It is not doing that and is failing miserably. I have to applaud the intent, but I was unaware that the reality is such a faint shadow of the original dream. My pride in Canada's dealings with First Nations in comparison to the US is diminished but I remain hopeful that this too will change.

I was looking at the Siksika Nation's non-public(as opposed to the one they label their "public" one) web-page and I got a hint of what another problem might be with the new act. It seems that the Siksika are on the verge of a big finalized self-government deal which they say will free them from the Indian Act (the old one). If the old Act gets repealed and replaced, suddenly they're back to square one and what I'm sure is generations of work and negotiations will be lost. I expect I'd be pretty pissed at Nault, too.

catch you later, zoomer. I gotta get to bed. This prune juice has knocked the liver outta me.

hey, analiese:

just in case you're still out there, I thought I'd send you this to show that I'm honest:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/31/oka_blockade030331

I don't know if you're aware of the last Oka standoff (I expect you are) but here's a link:

http://www.geocities.com/av_team2001/oka.html

this new blockade will resonate with Canadians if it gets noticed over the roar of war.

I heard about those standoffs. There was one on the New York side of the border too for awhile. The Mohawks have been pretty militant, which, considering what was done to them and their land, is understandable I think.

There's probably more solidarity across the international border with Canada than the one with Mexico. People near the Mexican border might be separated by no more than 10 miles but call those people other side Mexican Indians even though they're actually kin. So the borders make artificial divisions in the clans and tribes sometimes.

The Act you're talking about seems a lot like termination was. Ostensibly termination was supposed to end Federal government paternalism but in practice it merely encouraged state, local and corporate paternalism and exploitation.

I'm pretty confident it was done mostly knowing that it would give the corporations free rein to swindle indian people out of what little land they might have had left. So many tribes fought termination even though it meant living with the BIA still.

That's the problem. People want to get out from under the treaties without substantially fulfulling their obligations. They also want the land that's been reserved and any other pertinent resources.

It's sort of like what happened to the San Juan Paiute in the Arizona Strip. They got a reservation finally then a few years later some idiot bureaucrats went through the area and couldn't find no Paiutes so they gleefully reported that the Paiutes were extinct and the reservation was withdrawn from the trust lands. Now the Paiutes have had to go through the same crap all over again and still don't have recognition of their reservation independent of the Navahos.