h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I can hardly hear you down there.

Ste,

Well, not quite true! The gospel of Jesus Christ, and that work of the Cross, says that all religion other than that revealed in the Word of God is anti-Word. And, yes, you would be offended. To be fair, in your state, you cannot be anything else.


Ah, sorry, I thought I saw you say that you were in Oz. I live in Somerset, not far from Devon, and I am there quite often. I preach in Devon towns, right down to Plymouth, and I know quite a bit of it. Lovely county. You would not like it at the moment, it is peeing down with rain on and off, though quite mild.

Justin

Hello Justin.

Nice of you to reply .

I am Apostate for I was brought up, christened and confirmed a Roman Catholic. I have rejected that path and felt it only honest in the face of the many christians in our discussions on h2g2 that I state my position clearly.

One of the tenets of my path is that we should not mask ourselves with deceit, for that is not an honourable way to act.

Let us get something straight right at the beginning of our relationship. I am not an enemy of your God. I bear neither him, nor his adherents any ill will. Nor do I wish to convert you to my path, or any other for that matter. You note that I say 'our relationship', for as long as you remain here and interact with my friends you shall have me as your constant companion. Your very own 'devils advocate' if you wish. I should warn you that I was schooled by the Brothers of Christ, the Jesuits, and as such am very hard to shake off with platitudes or threats.

My purpose in this is to help you understand the tolerance that your Lord spoke of. Possibly to show you that not only those that have accepted your truth, can also be good people.

I have chosen my path, even if it means in the end that, as you believe, I shall be condemend to the lake of fire. It might help you in your quest to listen to such as I and the others here so that you may better understand why we would risk such a torment in the face of what you believe to be an undeniable truth.

It baffles me you know, that a man who wishes to be considered a true follower of Christ could so easily lose touch with so many of the basic tenets that he taught. Take humility for example, you should for you appear to have none whatsoever. You put yourself above us all here on no more evidence than your own prejudices. You cannot know the mind of God, nor know why he sent you to us. To believe that you do would be blasphemous arrogance.

A little humility goes a long way Justin. Try it and see.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Matholwch,

I am pleased, in that case, that you apostatised. God does not hold you to be an apostate, as you plainly never knew Him, never heard Him speak to you, and were never born again of the Holy Spirit. There is hope for you still. You only had religion loosely using Him as figurehead.

Almighty God says; "He that is not with me is against me."

He also says (through John here) "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." 1.Jn.3:10

There are many other places one could go to, but that is sufficient to make the point. Whether or not you view yourself as an enemy of God the question is 'what does God say is the Truth'?

I hope you don't think I am afraid of those who are the Waffen SS of the religion you were in!

Justin

Hi Justin,

From the <./>House Rules</.>, the explanation that you asked for:

Please, no flaming or trolling. On h2g2, flaming means posting something that's angry and mean- spirited - the online equivalent of flying off the handle. It's not a pretty sight, and we recommend constructive discussion as a far more satisfying pastime. Trolls say deliberately provocative things just to stir up trouble - it's not polite, so please don't do it. h2g2 is an incredibly friendly place, so please help to keep it that way.

Mina,

Thank you. I am pleased to say that I do not do either,now I have the interpretation. Much obliged.

Justin

And I'm pleased to say that black is white and the moon is made of green cheese.

Justin - what you seem, unsurprisingly, to have misunderstood, is that it is not YOU who makes the determination whether what you have posted constitutes trolling or flaming. It is other people. Since you appear to have trouble even realising other people exist or have rights to opinions, I'm not at all surprised to observe another gaping hole in your consciousness.



H.

"I am pleased to say that I do not do either..."

The moderators seem to disagree.

Ste

"Well Ste, it is a sad day when no one but those who agree with the status quo can have freedom of speech."

I have to agree with this. I think thet the moderation system is overused. This is also a problem in the US, where "political correctness" has been used to prevent free speech. I'm surprised I can find something you say I agree with.

However, it is rather hypocritical of you to complain about moderation when you are well known for yikesing those who disagree with you.

'"Well Ste, it is a sad day when no one but those who agree with the status quo can have freedom of speech."

I have to agree with this. I think thet the moderation system is overused. This is also a problem in the US, where "political correctness" has been used to prevent free speech. I'm surprised I can find something you say I agree with.'


That's all very well and good, but Justin has to obey the house rules. He doesn't, and when he doesn't I refer the matter to the moderators. The idea was that seeing as Justin cannot physically manage not to break the house rules, he would be put under premoderation (that happened) and if he continued to break the rules (by, for example, posting racist, homophobic, sexist and sectarian journal and giude entries) he would eventually have his account suspended (that hasn't happened).

'However, it is rather hypocritical of you to complain about moderation when you are well known for yikesing those who disagree with you'

It's a sign of desperation on Justin's behalf. Also a reaction to my past monitoring of his posts.

He isn't subscriber to this, or most of the threads you have resurrected, by the way.

Ste

Oh. I should have guessed that. Also, I agree that he ought to follow the house rules and I yikes him occasionally. I was agreeing with the basic sentiment, not claiming I though it applied here. I figure the best way to deal with Justin is to confuse him--complain and argue when he says something dumb or crazy and tell him he has a point whenb he says something that makes even a little sence.

I figure that he assumes anyone who argues with him is just out to persecute hime because he follows "the way". I try to confuse him by showing him that I can respect his opinions--when they are reasonable, which isn't often.

I tried to get someone moderated for horrible comments about homosexuality, I think it was Josh, the comments were never moderated. They were of the line that homosexuals are bad and will die horribly and end up in hell. I suspect there is a lot of flaming that christians can get away with like that.

I've gotten Justin moderated for some things he's said about homosexuals that I won't repeate here because I'd get moderated for it.

Hi both .

I would never press the yikes button unless someone was threatening another directly. Censorship is very dangerous.

For instance between 1936 and 1939 the British Press carried only the merest mention of the true content of Hitler's speeches. They did so because they did not want to upset their readerships. Thus the British public did not get a clear view of what was growing next door.

People like the ones you mention damn themselves from their own mouths. By letting them speak unfettered by censorship we expose their hatred and bigotry and allow those of us with possibly more rational and compassionate views to fight back with truth.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Maltho - that sort of thing was common at the time, for example when the BBC celebrated the anniversary of the Red Army without mentioning Leon Trotsky at all,the founder/leader who had been disgraced a few years previously by the Soviet Union.

""Well Ste, it is a sad day when no one but those who agree with the status quo can have freedom of speech."
I have to agree with this. I think thet the moderation system is overused. This is also a problem in the US, where "political correctness" has been used to prevent free speech."

As a student, I recently heard from one of my teachers that they aren't allowed to call a blackboard a blackboard anymore, because of racist overtones. As an anarchist/hippy type person, many of my friends thought I would approve of this. I do not. I merely deplore the loss of another perfectly good word from the English language.
(I feel like a hypocrit here, as in all the following examples of human behaviour I went through and hurriedly changed all the 'he could's to 'they could's.)

My point is, Justin can go around spouting all the foolishness he wants - if he manages to do so in a manner that pins all the blame on God for justifying racism and homophobia, then that's his prerogative.
Justin may sound stupid to nearly damn well everyone, but just as we don't have a single scrap of evidence to prove this(dons French wig and mustache) *outrageouz theory of 'eez*, we also have no proof to the contrary.
Privilege is the discerning factor in any kind of society which involves humans (it would be interesting to see if Heaven is a benevolently fascist police state).
Privilege, literally, means 'Private Law' - the rules that apply to oneself and not others.
One of the privileges which is an automatic feature of homo sapiens is the privilege to think whatever they will, under the socially acceptable mild brainwashing that our governments, media, and friends perform on us each day.
If it is possible for a human to discuss and expound their thoughts by voice or another medium, then they will try and do so, as a process of getting support to becoming an alpha male, and also as an automatic learning mechanism.
Justin has the privilege to do everything he can as long as he doesn't intrude on other people's privileges. If he does intrude on their privileges, they can intrude on his, in any way they see fit.
Justin has commited, in my view, no crime worthy of yikes'ing ANYTHING he says - that is intruding on the privileges of people who might want to read his views, and Justin's right of free thought.
As long as Justin stays clear of deliberately and with malice aforethought intending to hurt people's feelings, as long as he believes to a certain extent in what he is saying, he should have the right to say it.
Often, H. and us lot (I say us lot, meaning any of the vasty hordes of people who have attacked Justin at any point) run the risk of deeply offending him, yet do we care? My answer: No. Yet Justin very rarely yikes' our postings anymore (he's gotten over that now), so perhaps we should extend the same favour to him.
This is an enlightened, not necesarily polite, but enlightened, message board, which is a forum for debate and discussion. If you really do believe Justin yikes's your posts because he's scared, or that he is a fanatical evangelist with an inferiority complex, then at least, in the ahem, esteemed words of the ahem, existant Jesus Christ, extend to our neighbours the same we would expect to find for ourselves: teach him how to behave, don't stoop down to his level.

Justin, if you read this, don't think for a second that just because I am defending your rights that I approve of you. Will I, won't I, will I quote Descartes? No. Oh, okay then. "I despise what you are saying, but I will defend until death your right to say it".
Oh, and also, Justin, don't try and respond with any of that 'Thankyou, my son, God works in mysterious ways, you are a good soul but you will still burn' crap, I'm tired.
Ste, think about the insane witch hunt that you were about to endorse against Justin.
Of course, none of this means for a second that I'll stop vehemently denying any of his so-called 'Truth' of God.

He's gone by the way. Shame.

I am intolerant of intolerance. I have a particular grating niggle with Christian fundamentalists (have you noticed yet? ). If Justin wants to spout his hate-filled crap then he can damn well do it within the house rules at the very least, like the rest of us. If he wants freedom of speech and to be heard he could have kept within the rules and still got his message across, he wasn't capable of that it seems. No-one is stopping him standing in the middle of Weston-super-Mare, bellowing at passers by with wild eyes and a shaking fist, either.

I was probably the one that got Justin on premoderation with my early 'monitoring' of his posts. After that I didn't yikes that much of his stuff, mostly it was journal entries, which he found could bypass the premod status.

'My point is, Justin can go around spouting all the foolishness he wants - if he manages to do so in a manner that pins all the blame on God for justifying racism and homophobia, then that's his prerogative'
Not on this website it isn't. There are plenty others he can go to.

Justin is free to think whatever he wants. If he feels the need to communicate his thoughts, or preach, then he can do it without inciting hatred. If he is incapable of moderating his own language on this site then the site does it for him. It's his own responsibility.

'As long as Justin stays clear of deliberately and with malice aforethought intending to hurt people's feelings, as long as he believes to a certain extent in what he is saying, he should have the right to say it.'
I thought he was malicious and intended to hurt others feelings, though. What then?

'This is an enlightened, not necesarily polite, but enlightened, message board, which is a forum for debate and discussion. If you really do believe Justin yikes's your posts because he's scared, or that he is a fanatical evangelist with an inferiority complex, then at least, in the ahem, esteemed words of the ahem, existant Jesus Christ, extend to our neighbours the same we would expect to find for ourselves: teach him how to behave, don't stoop down to his level.'
I don't care if he yikesed any of my posts for whatever reason. Have you seen the extent of the support that was offered to Justin? He basically spat it back in our faces.

'Ste, think about the insane witch hunt that you were about to endorse against Justin.'
It wasn't a witchhunt. It was an attempt to bring an unpleasant, hate-filled and dangerous religious fanatic into line, or to get him kicked off the site.

Ste

Ste:- Fair 'nuff.

Oh, and is he gone for good? I mean really really gone for good?
Has he told anyone he isn't coming back?
I'll... I'll always remember the way he ranted at me, frothing at the mouth.
He called me heathen pagan devil-worshipping ignorant sacage and outcast who would be cast into the fiery pits of Hell forevermore because I didn't worship who he wanted me to worship, I called him a foolish, insecure Fundamentalist who rellies upon a giant sadomasochist in the sky to punish those who dropped him on his head as a baby.
It was a thing we had.

Fnord:

He has done a little dispearing act before, but he's never deleted all guide entries, user space, journals and unsubscribed from everything before. So you never know.

'It was a thing we had.'
Hang on, he did that with you too?!? Oooh, when I get my hands on that bl**dy little preacher...

Ste

He was shouting at you behind my back? He never told me! I don't believe it! I oughta sue his ass to Hell! No! No! Justin wouldn't do a thing like that!
No! No... did he... did he.. do that thing where he pretended to act lofty and aloof whereas actually he was getting tangled up emotionally about the fact that every man, woman, and his dog blowing his ridiculous little theories to peices?
He... he.. the way he could be outwitted by a comatose, subnormal chihuaha on illegal substances who was busy thinking of where the hell he'd left his bone, why there seemed to be a large piece of calcium and marrow where he left his bone, why a large angry preacher was waving the bone around in fiery rhetoric, and WHERE THE HELL IS MY BABY.
Well, we'll always have that eternity in Hell. Aahh, the Infinite Summer of Burning Torment.