h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Jordan,

It's wonderful that you have seemingly taken up the mantle to show others reading this the true face of Christianity. It's also important to have a voice of a real Christian protesting against Justin's hatred and misrepresentation of Christianity.

Ste

Thank you Ste, but your praise is undeserved. The Lord, my master and poor Justin's enemy, would not have me do otherwise.

- Jordan

Jordan's gone into "Justin" mode!

Justin is just like the rest of us, none of us are enemies of God. We all have our blind spots and we should not try to impose our belief systems on anyone else, When you bang your head against a brick wall, you feel the pain! Attack Justin's argument not Justin himself;
if he wants to believe God created the world 6000 years ago,
that every word of the Bible is true,
that evolution is somehow evil,
that intellectuals are servants of Satan,
that feminism is evil,
that men with long hair are rebelling against Gods law,
that women are subordinate to men,
and should cover their head's when praying to God,
then thats up to him.



Highly Evolved Blue/Green Alji

H Jordan .

"Matholwch is a paragon of Christian love"

Eeeek! Well there goes my pagan street cred' .

Well Jordan I am impressed with your passion. You go for it and show Justin what a Real Christian feels!

Blessings,
Matholwch the paragon /|\.

Justin appears to have retreated, by unsubscribing from pretty much all of the on going threads.

I take it he was none too please with Jordan's rhetoric.

BTW, well said, Jordan Benedict Gray.

In fact judging by the total emptiness of his personal page and lack of content on any of his unedited entries, I have to wonder if he is gone for good.

And that would be such a shame!

Sorry, replying to a long long ago answer from Justin ---
Thankyou for clearing that up, as I admit that my memory isn't that good and I wasn't sure if I'd remembered it right.
That certainly makes sense - that only the faithful can be in communication with the Logos. This naturally leads to the logical next step, that those who are not faithful cannot be in communication with God, and thus never will be. Therefore, heretics cannot ever repent fully.
This leads to the next inference : that those who are truly faithful will always be faithful, no matter what. With me so far?
Then: Whoever is born is born via the perfect will of God, by the love of God.
Thus: When we are born we are completly innocent, and therefore devoid of all sin. Agree?
Hence: We are all faithful when we are born.
Therefore: We are all always faithful, forever. Yes?
Anyone from either side want to clarify this? Prove me wrong, then, if I am, and I will humbly bow.
---------Fnord.
**Earth releases imperfect severities.**

I note with some regret that while I've been away snowboarding Justin has posted possibly the single funniest thing he's ever said here and then unsubscribed before I've had a chance to reply!

However, since me mucker Math has specifically said he was looking forward to me having a go at it...

"Just put yourself in His place for a moment; you have made all there is , and your power upholds and sustains it all."

See, so far this sounds like *normal* religious claptrap... then it gets *good*

"In fact all your creation feels your power every day, it is called 'gravity', (which is not magnetism, as that only acts on ferous metals, and scientists cannot explain it)."

Oh wow, where do you /start/ with this?

God's power is GRAVITY? Is that IT? Out of four fundamental forces in nature (strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetic, gravitational), and God's power is the WEAKEST of these four?

And I love the way he puts 'gravity' in quotes, in case anyone hasn't heard of it.

Even better, just in case any of you ejerkaytid folks out there forgot, Professor Hughes reminds us that 'gravity' is not magnetism. Gee, thanks prof, I get those two mixed up all the time.

And Professor Hughes lines himself up for the Nobel Prize for physics as he informs us that this force of his called 'magnetism' only acts on 'ferous' metals, and that scientists cannot explain it.

Could someone please point me to paper Justin has published about this new force? It will be fascinating to see how it differs markedly from the force those ignorant scientists call "electromagnetism", a very well understood force mediated by the exchange of massless, chargeless, spin 1 bosons commonly referred to as photons, a force which acts on all metals and indeed non-metals, and therefore cannot be the force to which Dr. Hughes refers.

Seriously, if Justin has discovered a fifth fundamental force which acts only on 'ferous' metals (whatever those are) it would make him the most important physicist since Einstein.

Or an ignorant moron.

Possibly.

"You are saying when each person is born and when they die, and you have given them free will and made them sentient creatures"

The clue meter is reading zero.

"above the rest of your creation (hence Satan's gospel of reducing men to mere 'higher animals', in the utter blasphemous lie of 'evolution')."

It always amuses me that the people who would parrot the line "pride cometh before a fall" really hate it when they have to face the reality of their lineage.

Earthmen are NOT proud of their ancestors...

"Yet your creation, man, thinks that he can overcome you by intellect, denial, debate, dispute, and 'alternative religion'. How would you feel?"

Incompetent. Stupid. Depressed. Disappointed.

Pride or satisfaction in my achievement at the creation of such a thing would be the LAST thing I would feel, I guarantee it.

And as for the concept of 'laughing at my enemies', well, we're back to the old God-as-sadistic-bastard thing again, aren't we? If a child pulls the wings and legs off a fly and laughs at its agonised death throes, we consider the child disturbed and would seek help for its behavioural problems. Justin's God makes that kid look like an angel, as he condemns newborn children to a lake of fire - children he created for no other reason than to torture them for eternity. How sick is that?

If anyone reading this *knows* Justin, then please, get him some help. And a GCSE level physics textbook, while you're at it.

H.

By ferrous metals, I assume he means iron and iron alloys--onother mistake.

Iron, Cobalt, and Nickel can all be magnetized, but cobalt and nickle aren't ferrous.

And, before anyone points out that the american 5-cent pieces called "nickeles aren't magnetic, I should point out that they're made of coated copper. And US pennies, which most people think are copper are really coated zinc.



Also, Hoovooloo, I'm afriad you made a physics error too, I think, though not as bad as Justin's.

Yu refered to there being four fundamental ofrces, gravity being the weakest.
It is now thought that there is a fifth force, simialar to Einstein's "cosmological constant" that is causing the universe's rate of expansion to increase. This is weaker than gravity and is not strong enough to be noticed except over verty large distances. This is sometimes called "lambda" or "dark energy", or the "cosmological constant"

Thus, Justin seems to have thought up a sixth force.

"By ferrous metals, I assume he means..."

He didn't SAY 'ferrous metals'. He said 'ferous' metals.

You will find I have the irritating habit of replying to what people SAY, rather than necessarily what they MEAN. I do this in the hope that people will, slowly and with any luck painfully, learn that it is best to say what you mean, and mean what you say, and check your posts for accuracy before clicking "Post Message". I also do it to get on their nerves. I fear I have more success at the latter than the former.

Regarding the "fifth force", my current understanding is that such theories are at about the same level as the ones which suggest lightspeed isn't a constant - which is to say that they are one way of solving a whole bunch of nightmarishly complicated equations, but not one that has any experimental evidence in their favour, yet.

For now, I think it's safe to say...

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/funfor.html
http://www.aip.org/physnews/graphics/html/fforces.htm
http://fermi.bgsu.edu/~stoner/P202/nuclr/tsld002.htm
http://www.chembio.uoguelph.ca/educmat/chm386/fundment/electro.htm
http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0857948.html
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/elementr-p_CarriersoftheBasicForces.asp (similar to the previous one??? )
http://www.mira.org/bonestell/kai/matter.htm
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/forces.html

... there are four fundamental forces, and this 'magnetism' of which our learned friend speaks isn't any of them.

In fact, as the last link quite eloquently explains, if anything the very separateness of the four forces may be illusory, and they may all be different aspects of the same thing - something we would need a superunified theory to explain. So the trend is to *fewer* forces, not more.

I'm not much of one for predictions, but here's one - if and when humanity ever does discover the superunified theory, and can finally quantify every interaction of every fundamental particle as a different aspect of just one, all enveloping force, I predict the following:

1. the force will have no enemies.
2. the force will be incapable of laughter.
3. the force will be with you... always.

H.

"He didn't SAY 'ferrous metals'. He said 'ferous' metals."

Could be a typo. Since I make so many of them, I try to ignore those of others, even Justin's

"Regarding the "fifth force", my current understanding is that such theories are at about the same level as the ones which suggest lightspeed isn't a constant - which is to say that they are one way of solving a whole bunch of nightmarishly complicated equations, but not one that has any experimental evidence in their favour, yet."

My understanding was that it had been determined that the universe is expanding too fast to be explained without a "fifth force". However, I will do more research and let you know what I find.

I agree that Justin's "magnatism" isn't anything real, its the product of either a poor education in science or a lack of interest in anything that anyone else tells him.

Also, I am aware of the Grand Unified/Super Unified theories. I am under the impression that there is acctually experimental evidence for the "electroweak" force as a combination of electromagnatism and the weak force.

By the way, since Justin says gravity is God pulling on us, I wonder how he justifies magnatism.

Thanks for the links.

I can't see that proving that other things don't work proves that a 5th force would. Just because no-one has come up with a viable alternative, doesn't mean there isn't one.

If gravity is god pulling on us, does that mean there's no god beyond the sphere with radius (speed of gravity * age of universe) centred on the origin of the big bang?

True. The articles I read in Scientific American seemed to take the exisstance of the fifth force for granted, so I may have gotten a exagerated impression of its certanty. I need to research it more.

I don't know how you all keep this up
Justin's views make me feel physically sick.
That there should be so much anger in the world.
If I were of a Christian persuasion, I'm certain I would see many many blasphamies in his intolerate, circular, irrational, misery laden, argument.
He re invents science (and anything else reasonable to hand) to fit his own needs.
And these are his OWN needs.
and as for asing us all to imagine ourselves as God, well that works for me but I'm certain it must be a sin for such a rigid fundamentalist.
Last night I saw a program called Believing in Magic.
Scenes of an evangelical meeting had the same physical affect on me as Jusinmes preachery and I had to switch the brainwashing rant off.

Preacher first heal thyself.

"I don't know how you all keep this up"

By viewing only small doses at a time. Believe it or not, i've seen other things almost as bad.

"Justin's views make me feel physically sick.
That there should be so much anger in the world."

Me too, to a degree. What it really does is make me want to shout at him in a way that would get me moderated. What really gets me, though, is when he stonewalls be repeating himself and saying meaningless things.

"the brainwashing rant"

Its only brainwashing if you take is seriously or are forced to take it seriously. Otherwise, fundamentalism can be informative. It is good to know what others think, even if they are crazy. "Know thine enemy." (One of the few Bible quotes I really like)

I think it was watching the brainwashing of others that made me flinch.

Oh.

Well, I should hope so too. God, whether He exists or not, needs moronicly slavish zombie-like followers who cannot think independently, like He needs, well, anything, really, since He is omni-omnitical, and therefore needs nothing.