h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Sickened, saddened and, frankly, disgusted. This may well result in my being moderated, warned, or even banned. So be it.

There's been another Lifetime Ban. U211780 Symphony. Don't bother looking at their space. It doesn't say that they've been banned. There's been no Transgressions Procedure. Nothing. Just an outright ban.

They didn't break a single House Rule. Never even had a post moderated.

Their crime? Apparently, they are LeKZ (Arpeggio)

Bxllshxt.

I know them. I've spoken to them in person. Others on this site know them. They are, and always have been, in the UK.

They asked for their IP address to be checked. For their email headers to be checked. Well, I don't know if they really were, but I checked the email headers, and they showed a dial-up ISP in the UK.

I was under the impression that during the Quincy/Satyagraha (sp?) witchhunt, that the IP logs were touted as infallible. Well, if they showed that those accounts were DEFINITELY operated from the US, and even as specifically as Denver, Colorado, then how the hell did they not show that the Symphony account was always and only ever operated from the UK?

I can't see this as anything other than blatant discrimination. Symphony are Multiple. They made no attempt to hide it. Why the hell should they?

I'm beyond angry. I'm furious. They're crying.

Let's just see how long it takes before this gets modded, shall we? Or how long it takes me to get a warning. Place your bets, folks.

Nick
X

Email en-route to you & them.

zdt

Thanks

Nick
X

So...

I get back from my vacation and find that yet another person has been quietly and summarily banned from this sitefor the crime of "being LeKZ." And this time, apparently, it's someone in the UK!

Maybe an alter found a way to escape from their body, booked a flight, emmigrated and set up residence?

It does make one wonder how many other people have been quietly "disappeared" from here.

0

This is probably a silly question but what is/was the LeKZ/Arpeggio issue anyway? I've only previously come across the names in passing on the site and haven't seen anything approximating to an explanation yet. Is there a best page/thread to see for whatever multiple views may exist on the subject?

LeKZ/Arpeggio is my life partner, whose abrupt banishment from this site for posting a message that contained a bunch of Xs resulted in the institution of the transgressions procedure, which was intended to make sure that no other researcher was subjected to that sort of treatment again.

U173889

A666263

Yes, I'd definitely bimbled past that page once before. I fail to see at the moment what the problem with the bunch of X's might have been (eg people widening the page by not using spaces is a relatively minor irritant rather than a bannable offence and certainly 2legs does it a lot without being banned). I probably need to read all that lot tomorrow (erm the today which hasn't happened yet) before making up my own mind.

However, wrongly accusing someone of being someone they are not or doing something they didn't do is well out of order. I've been libelled and misrepresented by researchers and staff myself. So I know how much the staff get that aspect of the law and morals wrong.

I don't know if it's worth me saying this or not, but:

1) I had also had my own wonders about whether the Symphony account was LeKZ, but decided to stay out of it and far away.

2) The owner of the Symphony account made it clear that s/he was a member of another list which LeKZ started, and which has very limited membership.

3) After reading some more of the postings, I eventually concluded that the owner of the Symphony account was probably not LeKZ, but was almost definitely someone who knows LeKZ. Notice I said *probably* -- if the owner of the account was someone sharing a body with LeKZ et al, I'd really rather not know -- I've been burned on that road before, which is part of why I tried to stay out of this.

4) Given some considerable similarities between the Symphony and Arpeggio accounts, I found 2 likely scenarios:

a) Someone was intentionally pretended to be Arpeggio, for less than nice reasons, as had happened in the past. If this was the case, I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the person being axed off the site. However, given #2, I found that unlikely.

b) Someone was unintentionally imitating Arpeggio. LeKZ (et al) have an incredibly intense personality, and I have noticed in the past that sometimes multiples who are less sure of themselves sometimes end up with an alter that is in some ways imitating one of LeKZ (et al)'s after extended contact. This isn't as bizarre or unheard of as you might think -- I've seen case studies documenting similar occurrences, although primarily in the settings of inpatient treatment or group therapy. In this situation, I wouldn't necessarily blame the italics for banning the account, although I might have come to a different decision. While I was able to read the posts and conclude that it probably wasn't LeKZ et al, I did so on the basis of knowledge that the italics don't have. And from their perspective, they would probably see someone pretending to be LeKZ just as bad as having LeKZ back on the site -- I don't think they would consider intent relevant.


Mikey, eternally the devil's advocate.

There's the questions of geography, IP traces and the transgressions procedure...

There's the question of why there is no notice that Symphony's account has been closed.

Questions abound.

Last I heard, if the italics decide (by whatever reasoning) that an account is held by someone who has previously been given a lifetime ban, they don't generally think it's appropriate to institute the transgressions procedure. There have been more than a few cases of banned people coming back under new names, and the conclusion was that since such situations are most often revolving around someone who thrives on attention, there was no need to reward the individual with more attention.

IP addresses, by the way, can relatively easily be faked -- spammers do it all the time. However, it's somewhat more difficult to fake a specific IP address -- the vast majority of faked IPs use nonsense IP addresses. However, even without faking an IP, I (from here in Texas) could log onto h2g2 with a UK IP address if I really wanted to -- it wouldn't be cheap, though, as the simplest way to do it would be to use a dial-up connection that was based in the UK, which makes it an international call. There are other ways as well, although they start to get more complicated after that. It's far from impossible, however.

Oh my! So IP traces don't really prove much of anything? Hmmmm...



Thank you, Mikey!

"Last I heard, if the italics decide (by whatever reasoning) that an account is held by someone who has previously been given a lifetime ban, they don't generally think it's appropriate to institute the transgressions procedure."

Have there been occasions where this has happened since the Q and S accounts, for which the transgressions procedure was instituted?

It's entirely possible -- not something I generally keep track of. Given that the announcement for lifetime bans and the transgressions procedure is more often than not only posted on that user in questions personal space, I'm not likely to be aware of someone being (initially) banned unless a) it's someone I know, or b) a big fuss is made about it somewhere else I read posts (such as the community soapbox).

I can tell you that there has recently been instituted a procedure by which people who open an account solely to spam can have their accounts closed without using the procedure (although in these cases, if the user actually has the balls to respond to the closure email -- and had the balls to use a legit email address -- the transgressions procedure essentially goes into play). From what I remember, this came about because of the number of people who created accounts just for spam, were kicked out, and then immediately started new accounts to do the same thing. Given what an incredible pain it is to slowly remove all of the vile and hateful postings of such spammers (they have to be done one by one, sadly, and some poor researcher has to hit the yikes button on every one of the hundreds of posts), the community agreed that it was important for the italics to be able to close such accounts as quickly as they were detected.

I can also think of situations in which someone who has been suspended (but not yet banned) as come back with a different account, and that account has been immediately closed off without announcement. And those cases are relatively recent -- aka, since Q/S.

Thanks for the info, Mikey!

0

I should also point out that in the latter cases I'm thinking of, the individuals were either idiotic or arrogant enough to come right out and admit that they had been suspended and had started a new account solely to evade the suspension, in posts to their friends.

I tend not to have much sympathy for such as those....

" I found 2 likely scenarios:

a) Someone was intentionally pretended to be Arpeggio, for less than nice reasons, as had happened in the past. If this was the case, I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the person being axed off the site. However, given #2, I found that unlikely.

b) Someone was unintentionally imitating Arpeggio."

Two additional scenarios are of course possible.

1. It was the holder of the Arpeggio account, who, having been stung by having their ignorance of the workings of computers exposed by the "Silent Lucidity" debacle and later occurrences has spent the last eighteen months boning up on how to hack, and has now learned to correctly fake a UK IP address. I have in fact recently had an email from that very person boasting how easily she could now hack my personal machine or h2g2, so I find this scenario perfectly possible, but wildly unlikely for other reasons.

2. It was NOT the holder of the Arpeggio account, but someone who knows her well intentionally attempting to appear to be similar to her, possibly with her collusion and agreement, with the express intention of getting banned for being her, as has happened. The true holder of the account could then triumphantly prove, relatively easily, that they are a UK resident and not LeKZ at all, thus exposing the "anti-LeKZ conspiracy". LeKZ supporters then get some validation and the Editors are made to look stupid and prejudiced.

I personally lean toward the latter interpretation, as I have done since well before Symphony was banned. It's easier and cheaper than hacking, and it makes the Editors look worse.

Just my 2c.

Ok, fair warning! It's very early in the morning, I've not slept well, and I've just been woken by the postman (well, the dog, actually, who trampled me in her hurry to go and bark at him. Loudly!) I'm not too coherant.

Thanks to all who read this, and bothered to respond. I wasn't really expecting anything when I posted it. I'm just so pxssxd, I had to write it. I hate cover-ups.

Symphony did, in fact, offer to provide what proof they could that they are in the UK, and are not LeKZ. They asked what would be acceptable, or what the italics wanted. They got nothing back. It seemed to them, and me, that the decision had already been made, and that nothing they did or said was going to make a blind bit of difference.

I suppose they could have travelled to London and turned up at the Towers in person, and it still wouldn't have been enough.

Much was made of the "supposed" similarities between LeKZ' writing style, and that of Quincy. I ask ya, Symphony haven't posted anything that's even remotely like that. Not a thing. The only similarity between them and LeKZ is that neither hid their multiplicity. Far as I knew, that wasn't a bannable offence. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows. I sure don't, not any more.

Yes, they're on another list, with LeKZ. No, they're not sharing the same Body as LeKZ. I know this for a fact, since I've spoken to many of Symphony, and in person at that. I built their computer for them.

Thanks for the IP info, Mikey. I guess it isn't quite so "infallible" after all. Here's a question, though, and it's not aimed at anyone. Just a thought..

The ISP in question (and I know which one it is, since I set the damn thing up for Symphony) tie the account to a UK phone number. I've set accounts up for numerous people who's computers I've either built or fixed, and I know for a fact that if you mess up the accounts, it doesn't work. In other words, I can only access my ISP account by dialling in from my home phone number. How would it be possible to get around that, and dial in from the US?
Also, the charges for UK dial-up ISPs are not only in £ Sterling, but sent to a UK address/charged to a UK credit or debit card/taken by Direct Debit from a UK bank account.

I'm not letting this drop. I'm not keeping my mouth shut.

0 - Yes, the spirit of lekzism is apparently alive and well, here on good ol' H2G2. Hope the holiday went well, and I'm so sorry you came back to find this stinking up your Space. Not to mention your life/home/life partner's life and home.

Granny - and thanks for the

Mikey - Thanks for the info. The more info I have, the more questions it raises, but that's how that goes.

SEF - Thanks for being interested, and asking. Anything you want to know, feel free to ask. My email is on my space if you want it.

The email offer is open to anyone.

I'm off to go and do something. Don't ask me what! It's early. I'm still not really awake. Oh yeah, that's what I'll do. I'll go put my email address back on my Space. D'oh. Mornings....never could get the hang of mornings.

X

Hey H. Never expected you to find my out-of-the-way Space. Or maybe I did, all things considered.

I'll say this now, but I don't expect you to believe a word I say.

Symphony are not LeKZ. Symphony did not open the account to get banned as LeKZ. If they didn't happen to know me, and have asked for my help when they first found out they'd been banned, this wouldn't even have been made public.

Now, I've been around for a long time here. I've held those nice shiny badges on my Space for some time. I've not so much as had a post moderated in all that time, much less anything else. So I'm obviously not LeKZ, am I?

I'm the one kicking up a (minor) stink about this, not them. Because it stinks. Maybe I'll wind up banned too. Who knows.

They can't win either way, can they? Either they're LeKZ, logged in through some seriously round-the-world means (literally). Or they're not LeKZ, but they're friends of theirs. Or they're not LeKZ, but they're trying to prove a point by dragging themselves through the mud too.

How about.... they're not LeKZ, they never pretended to be, they opened their account for the same reasons as so many others did, which is because someone introduced them to the site (ME) and all they wanted was to relax, have fun and maybe meet people? Ever cross anyone's mind?

Seems to me that the benefit of the doubt just doesn't exist here on H2G2. Preconceived prejudices do, though.

But then, nobody in this thread has ever had any problems with the way the site is run, have they? I mean, nobody has ever disagreed with any decisions made, or questioned anyone's judgement, have they?

I like being an ACE. I like being a GURU. But I'm risking being booted off both schemes here, I think. So be it. I'm not doing this for the good of my health. I'm doing it because what's happened is wrong, and I'm not keeping quiet about it. I really don't expect anything to come of it for Symphony.

If I really wanted to, I could have put this on the Soapbox, where much more attention would have come it's way. I didn't see the point.

Yeah, I sound bitter, angry and frustrated. That'd be because I am.

Going to put my email back on my Space, then I'm making myself some and going somewhere calm and quiet. For now.

Nick
X

H. Feel free to email me. (Use Hotmail or something if you want to. I know how much you value your privacy.) Or don't. Your choice.

"Hey H. Never expected you to find my out-of-the-way Space. Or maybe I did, all things considered."

If "all things" includes David posting a link to here in a thread I started and was posting in regularly, then yeah, maybe you should have expect it.

"I'll say this now, but I don't expect you to believe a word I say."

I have no reason to believe you. I have no reason NOT to believe you. Not really bothered either way.

"Symphony are not LeKZ."

I believe you.

"Symphony did not open the account to get banned as LeKZ."

OK. It was just another possibility, and, crucially, one which required no dishonesty whatsoever on the part of Symphony or LeKZ at any stage.

"If they didn't happen to know me, and have asked for my help when they first found out they'd been banned, this wouldn't even have been made public."

Now there, I'm afraid, I have to say I don't believe you.

"...I'm obviously not LeKZ, am I?"

Um... yes? I can certainly believe that.

"I'm the one kicking up a (minor) stink about this, not them. Because it stinks. Maybe I'll wind up banned too. Who knows. "

I doubt it.

"They can't win either way, can they?"

Um... define "win"? Because I'd say, if I was right, they've won. They're (presumably) provably NOT LeKZ, and they've been banned for being her. There's no way, in that case, that the Eds can justify maintaining a ban, and Symphony may even have a case for compensation due to damaged reputation. Sounds like a win to me.

"Either they're LeKZ, logged in through some seriously round-the-world means (literally)."

In which case they've successfully fooled their own friends into defending an account they claim isn't them... again.

I don't personally believe that, for many, many reasons.

"Or they're not LeKZ, but they're friends of theirs."

How is this not a "win"? Especially since it's very simple to prove they're in the UK? I could prove my identity to the Italics' satisfaction with a single phone call. Being a friend of LeKZ is no offence, otherwise O, Barton, you and many others wouldn't be here. Sounding like her isn't a bannable offense, either.

"Or they're not LeKZ, but they're trying to prove a point by dragging themselves through the mud too."

I fail to see how they've been in any way "dragged through the mud". They've behaved themselves, it seems. If the only thing they've been banned for is being someone they're not, that's hardly being dragged through the mud, other than associating themself with someone who has by their own actions become persona non grata here.

"How about.... they're not LeKZ, they never pretended to be, they opened their account for the same reasons as so many others did, which is because someone introduced them to the site (ME) and all they wanted was to relax, have fun and maybe meet people? Ever cross anyone's mind?"

Yes, it did. The same thought crossed peoples' minds about an account called "Silent Lucidity", which claimed to be exactly that.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

"Seems to me that the benefit of the doubt just doesn't exist here on H2G2. Preconceived prejudices do, though."

This is not, I'm afraid, prejudice. This is POSTjudice. If LeKZ had come here, been banned, and never come back, you'd be right. But she came back, not once, not twice, not even three times. There is a pattern. You cannot blame people for being suspicious.

If Jeffrey Archer told you something was the absolute, Bod's honest truth, would you believe him? And if not, is that prejudice, or common sense in the light of his proven tendency to lie?

"But then, nobody in this thread has ever had any problems with the way the site is run, have they?"

Ah. Sarcasm.

"I mean, nobody has ever disagreed with any decisions made, or questioned anyone's judgement, have they?"

I AM questioning the judgement. I don't think Symphony should have been banned. I just have slightly different reasons for thinking that than you, is all.

"I like being an ACE. I like being a GURU. But I'm risking being booted off both schemes here, I think."

I think perhaps not, yet.

"So be it. I'm not doing this for the good of my health. I'm doing it because what's happened is wrong, and I'm not keeping quiet about it. I really don't expect anything to come of it for Symphony."

We'll see. If the offence is "failing to prove she isn't LeKZ", then that can be very simply sorted, I'd say. Unless she chooses not to. It's part of the terms and conditions of the site since the Q/S farce that a user can be required, at any time, to prove their identity/location to the Italics' satisfaction. You should know that. Symphony should know that. Providing that proof is the responsibility of the account holder, and they can choose not to bother. No problem there that I can see...

"If I really wanted to, I could have put this on the Soapbox, where much more attention would have come it's way. I didn't see the point."

Fine. So what ARE you trying to achieve by even posting at all? I only found this thread because I was directed here - the same would have been the case if you'd posted in the soapbox, in my case. What's your POINT?

"H. Feel free to email me. (Use Hotmail or something if you want to. I know how much you value your privacy.) Or don't. Your choice."

My privacy is but a memory. But I can see no reason not to continue this discussion here - I've nothing to say which isn't public.

H.

Having as I do a celebrated reputation for sh*tty timing, I wish I could offer more than my sympathy and best wishes to you and your partner O, at this obviously meta-sh*tty time.

People have come close to suicide because of policy decisions on this website. I wonder if the depressive who wrote of planets destroyed by bureaucracy would appreciate what has happened to his vision.